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Post by pessimistpanda on May 24, 2017 23:50:44 GMT
Lol, I freely admit that my liking Alistair is mostly predicated on a pre-existing attraction to goofy, dorky guys generally.
I also thought Jaal showing me his star map was super cute and sexy, lol.
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gayhawke
Grizzled Warrior
Posts: 210
Likes: 640
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Post by gayhawke on May 24, 2017 23:50:58 GMT
I think it's about emphasis. Like, there are loads of characters in the DA games that I don't like, and would be happy to bash at the first opportunity. But when I read the OP - and I may have gotten the wrong impression - this thread was for the characters that are just a giant question mark, like how could you possibly like this. Which is why I went with Gaspard and Loghain: their sole apparent redeeming quality is being competent military leaders, but they're never shown to be competent, so why do they have fans? They obviously do have fans, as cBSN shows. But, like, whyyyyy. It doesn't make any sense to me. I don't think bashing characters is necessarily a bad thing in of themselves. They're not real, after all. Sometimes the reasons for it are shit, but -shrug- The reason I emphasized "no bashing" (specifically in regards to fans) is that I've noticed people take it way too far and make judgment calls on how everyone who likes character A is awful and blah blah blah. We don't need that shit. Besides, I'd love some explanations as to why people love Alistair. I don't always agree with everyone, but I still like hearing different POVs. I don't love Alistair necessarily, I think he's a generic nice guy and the most interesting thing about him is that he's a bastard prince. I would like for more lore on why being pregnant with him cured Fiona of the blight and what happened to the Theirin bloodline in the first place for that to even be possible.
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Post by pessimistpanda on May 24, 2017 23:54:41 GMT
I don't think bashing characters is necessarily a bad thing in of themselves. They're not real, after all. Sometimes the reasons for it are shit, but -shrug- The reason I emphasized "no bashing" (specifically in regards to fans) is that I've noticed people take it way too far and make judgment calls on how everyone who likes character A is awful and blah blah blah. We don't need that shit. Besides, I'd love some explanations as to why people love Alistair. I don't always agree with everyone, but I still like hearing different POVs. I don't love Alistair necessarily, I think he's a generic nice guy and the most interesting thing about him is that he's a bastard prince. I would like for more lore on why being pregnant with him cured Fiona of the blight and what happened to the Theirin bloodline in the first place for that to even be possible. See, I actually REALLY DISLIKE all the layers of special that Alistair is wrapped in. It's just bad writing to me. "He's a bastard prince but ALSO half-elf and ALSO half-dragon!" Fucking give it a rest.
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gayhawke
Grizzled Warrior
Posts: 210
Likes: 640
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Post by gayhawke on May 24, 2017 23:56:46 GMT
I don't love Alistair necessarily, I think he's a generic nice guy and the most interesting thing about him is that he's a bastard prince. I would like for more lore on why being pregnant with him cured Fiona of the blight and what happened to the Theirin bloodline in the first place for that to even be possible. See, I actually REALLY DISLIKE all the layers of special that Alistair is wrapped in. It's just bad writing to me. "He's a bastard prince but ALSO half-elf and ALSO half-dragon!" Fucking give it a rest. GOD SPEAKING ABOUT THINGS THAT FUCKING ANNOY ME people who draw/write Alistair as having pointed ears/other elven features
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spacetime
Grizzled Warrior
betty ain't no fool
Posts: 71
Likes: 348
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Post by spacetime on May 24, 2017 23:57:38 GMT
Frickin' Cullen "Mage Killer" Rutherford. What's so great about him? How is he qualified to broker peace between the mages and the templars? Why would a mage ever romance the guy? Why, after his appearances in previous games is he suddenly supposed to be this lovable guy worthy of a redemption story? He's not even the most interesting choice story-wise, in my opinion.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on May 24, 2017 23:59:18 GMT
I wish we could have an LGBT male character who's wrapped up in 10 layers of special. I've got it, guys: He's an ancient elf who turns out to be the secret lovechild between one of the elven gods and one of the Forgotten Ones. He is also a sominari and a dragon tamer. He has 10 dragon pets, more than even Yavana. Also, he has an m!preg baby because he's so super powerful that he can have a baby with his ex-lover. But then the baby died, so the player doesn't have to deal with raising a kid with him.
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Catilina
The Beastmaster
Wanted Apostate
Posts: 827
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Post by Catilina on May 25, 2017 0:00:09 GMT
Frickin' Cullen "Mage Killer" Rutherford. What's so great about him? How is he qualified to broker peace between the mages and the templars? Why would a mage ever romance the guy? Why, after his appearances in previous games is he suddenly supposed to be this lovable guy worthy of a redemption story? He's not even the most interesting choice story-wise, in my opinion. He's feckin' sexy.
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indrexu
Grizzled Warrior
Certified Lesbian Disasterâ„¢
Posts: 62
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Post by indrexu on May 25, 2017 0:00:18 GMT
Not that I don't technically agree, being a medieval nerd myself, but I think you're holding this stuff up to a standard it just won't reach for a while. Bioware writes really good video games, but I wouldn't exactly put their work up against the greats of other media yet (which is understandable, it's a young medium, after all). And as you alluded to, there's like 10 different writers pulling at these characters in tie-in materials, follow-up games, DLC, etc. Then, unlike with a coherent story, they have to write with people in mind who have read everything and then those who don't... the quality of character consistency is just bound to vary. I think Loghain is liked more for the idea of who he is than all of his actions accumulated. The one thing that is still sometimes discussed even in DA:I among the characters is the question of whether it was right, knowing what he knew, to pull his soldiers out of that particular battle at Ostagar. That's kind of the watershed moment that I think a lot of people remember. Stolen Throne or whatever that book was called probably isn't, and some people even take the stance that things that don't appear in the main games are not "real canon", which leaves you with characters that have weirdly flexible histories and personalities as a result. It's kind of unfortunate, I do wish that would get better. I don't think it's too much to ask, to be honest. You don't see this sort of thing with most other characters. Isabela is kind of a shitty pirate, but she's funny and sassy and bawdy and doesn't take shit, and she has a huge set of...fans. Alistair is kind of a shitty Warden and a shitty king, but he does his whole adorkable thing and his whole I want to be the Good Guy thing and his desperate lonely virgin thing and legions of straight ladies fall all over themselves. Aveline does a passable job in charge of the Kirkwall guard if you're being super charitable, and an incredibly shitty one if you're not (since her failures did start the qunari invasion and she totally failed to prevent the mage-templar fighting in Act 3 and Kirkwall generally remained a hive of scum and villainy throughout the game despite her efforts), but she still has a fanbase, and a pretty sizable one at that. Like, it's totally possible to write a character who sucks at their job but is still likable in some way, even with the handicaps of multiple writers tugging at a franchise from different directions (which I actually think is overstated, tbh; the frustrating ambiguity and muddled thinking around Ostagar have been there since the outset, and even though there was a slight emphasis change in Return to Ostagar interviews have made it apparent that it was more or less intended to be there all along). I agree that Loghain's fans are more about who he might have been than about who he is actually portrayed to be. That's fair. I guess I can understand that better. Honestly, that's kind of a thing a lot of the time. I don't bash BioWare's writers for not really knowing what a good war leader looks like because most people don't really know what a good war leader looks like; shit, lots of military historians and soldiers have trouble with the concept. That said, it's worth pointing out that it's super easy to avoid the pitfall of writing a character that's supposed to be a good general yet making her seem like a total tool: don't get too specific. Cullen in Inquisition appears as a fairly competent leader of soldiers. He doesn't do anything aggressively stupid and he does a decent job of acting inspiring (in a non-stupid way - see Commander Shepard for somebody who's supposed to be inspiring but is mostly insipid and verbose): what else, really, do you need?
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spacetime
Grizzled Warrior
betty ain't no fool
Posts: 71
Likes: 348
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Post by spacetime on May 25, 2017 0:02:31 GMT
gayhawke That's so funny. Who thought putting Kylo on a birthday card was a good idea? I think it's meant to be ironic? There's a lot of Father's Day merch for Vader. I got my dad a mug, lol. I think Darth Vader themed father's day stuff is funny. Not to get too off topic, but my dad once gave me a shirt with Vader on it that read, "Who's Your Daddy?" Thought he was being so clever. :
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spacetime
Grizzled Warrior
betty ain't no fool
Posts: 71
Likes: 348
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Post by spacetime on May 25, 2017 0:05:15 GMT
Frickin' Cullen "Mage Killer" Rutherford. What's so great about him? How is he qualified to broker peace between the mages and the templars? Why would a mage ever romance the guy? Why, after his appearances in previous games is he suddenly supposed to be this lovable guy worthy of a redemption story? He's not even the most interesting choice story-wise, in my opinion. He's feckin' sexy. Eh. No comment.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on May 25, 2017 0:08:37 GMT
Another character I don't get the love for is.... Bann Teagan. People were crying that they made him ugly in Trespasser. Where were these fans? He was visually unappealing since Origins. (OK, OK, I know, doesn't mean much considering I'm not into men but....)
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Post by toomanyclouds on May 25, 2017 0:24:20 GMT
Not that I don't technically agree, being a medieval nerd myself, but I think you're holding this stuff up to a standard it just won't reach for a while. Bioware writes really good video games, but I wouldn't exactly put their work up against the greats of other media yet (which is understandable, it's a young medium, after all). And as you alluded to, there's like 10 different writers pulling at these characters in tie-in materials, follow-up games, DLC, etc. Then, unlike with a coherent story, they have to write with people in mind who have read everything and then those who don't... the quality of character consistency is just bound to vary. I think Loghain is liked more for the idea of who he is than all of his actions accumulated. The one thing that is still sometimes discussed even in DA:I among the characters is the question of whether it was right, knowing what he knew, to pull his soldiers out of that particular battle at Ostagar. That's kind of the watershed moment that I think a lot of people remember. Stolen Throne or whatever that book was called probably isn't, and some people even take the stance that things that don't appear in the main games are not "real canon", which leaves you with characters that have weirdly flexible histories and personalities as a result. It's kind of unfortunate, I do wish that would get better. I don't think it's too much to ask, to be honest. You don't see this sort of thing with most other characters. Isabela is kind of a shitty pirate, but she's funny and sassy and bawdy and doesn't take shit, and she has a huge set of...fans. Alistair is kind of a shitty Warden and a shitty king, but he does his whole adorkable thing and his whole I want to be the Good Guy thing and his desperate lonely virgin thing and legions of straight ladies fall all over themselves. Aveline does a passable job in charge of the Kirkwall guard if you're being super charitable, and an incredibly shitty one if you're not (since her failures did start the qunari invasion and she totally failed to prevent the mage-templar fighting in Act 3 and Kirkwall generally remained a hive of scum and villainy throughout the game despite her efforts), but she still has a fanbase, and a pretty sizable one at that. Like, it's totally possible to write a character who sucks at their job but is still likable in some way, even with the handicaps of multiple writers tugging at a franchise from different directions (which I actually think is overstated, tbh; the frustrating ambiguity and muddled thinking around Ostagar have been there since the outset, and even though there was a slight emphasis change in Return to Ostagar interviews have made it apparent that it was more or less intended to be there all along). I agree that Loghain's fans are more about who he might have been than about who he is actually portrayed to be. That's fair. I guess I can understand that better. Honestly, that's kind of a thing a lot of the time. I don't bash BioWare's writers for not really knowing what a good war leader looks like because most people don't really know what a good war leader looks like; shit, lots of military historians and soldiers have trouble with the concept. That said, it's worth pointing out that it's super easy to avoid the pitfall of writing a character that's supposed to be a good general yet making her seem like a total tool: don't get too specific. Cullen in Inquisition appears as a fairly competent leader of soldiers. He doesn't do anything aggressively stupid and he does a decent job of acting inspiring (in a non-stupid way - see Commander Shepard for somebody who's supposed to be inspiring but is mostly insipid and verbose): what else, really, do you need? Yeah, but that's were the writers overestimating themselves comes in. See, I don't think Loghain was supposed to be a particularly bad leader, it's just how he turned out if you actually take the time to comb through his whole story. However, many players won't (because the game is 50-70 hours long and you may play it over the course of several weeks, and depending on whether you recruit Loghain or kill him you actually have a very different exposure time), so writers get away with it comparatively easily. I do agree many writers have a problem with stepping away from characters who are supposed to be extraordinary in some way, it happens all the time and not just in video games. (It does have a special variation in video games though, for example: If Cora was such an amazingly strong biotic that even the Alliance Military was afraid of her at a time when biotics where already well-known, then why in the hell does she keep yolo-charging Anointed One's and dying ten seconds into the battle?)
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Post by vertigomez on May 25, 2017 1:35:28 GMT
And speaking of the Qunari, the fact that they have any fans is baffling to me. I don't know where to even begin unpacking it all. "You know what? I like your thinking! Sign me up for chemical mind rape and also regular rape!" I love the Qunari. Like Orzammar's caste system and Tevinter's mage supremacy and the Chantry's... Crusade-y-ness, I don't have to be philosophically aligned with something to love it in fiction. But if you mean from an in-game perspective... yeah, I'm mostly anti-Qun. But I can also see the parts where they're doing a better job than Southern Thedas and I can see why someone would be a "fan" in that sense even if I'm on a mission to Tal them Vashoth.
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Post by Crimson on May 25, 2017 1:39:51 GMT
Bronies. I don't understand them nor do I want too. EDIT: Fuck yiss, I'm an ice queen now bitches!!!
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Post by Andrew Mancer on May 25, 2017 1:50:35 GMT
Normally, I wouldn't post these opinions for fear of being attacked by the fans, but since we are being honest... {Spoilered For Unpopular Opinions...Please Dont Hurt Me! }Varric, Varric, VARRIC! I really don't see the appeal behind this character. It bothers me that he's the "forced best friend" for Hawke and nothing can be done about that. I have no interest in his lies or "stories" and certainly didn't find him funny. Even when rival Hawke makes it clear that they aren't friends and he has no interest in Varric...BioWare still makes it seem like he's closer to Hawke than anyone else. Really? I didn't help him, was always rude and never took him anywhere...yet they are still "friends". As if we didn't have enough of him...he needlessly returns as a mandatory companion in the next game where again he is the "forced best friend". It seems impossible to get him to dislike you. I really saw no reason for him to be in the game and I really wish we were given an option to say that we weren't friends for both Hawke and the Inquisitor. Dorian. Outside of being the "gay companion", I didn't see the appeal behind the character. That quest with his father was an awful choice for the first gay character to get. Outside of his introduction, nothing stood out for me. It felt like he was just there to explain all things Tevinter. He just felt like a stereotype of a "typical gay male" in media. Not a fan of how they chose to represent gay/bi men in Inquistion. Sebastian! Here's one where I feel the character is underrated. Yes, he is a DLC character but he is integrated pretty well. He still felt like a part of the crew and had enough interaction with the world to secure his place. He felt like a flawed character done right. I liked seeing his struggle between his devotion to the Chantry and reclaiming his homeland. He is obviously very devoted to Andraste and The Maker and has some fine points raised in his arguments. He has fun, fair, and valid banter with Isabela and Merrill. Even then, if your family was murdered and your home taken, wouldn't you want revenge? (Speaking in a hypothetical, living in the middle ages type of way) He doesn't abandon his faith. His reaction at the end of Dragon Age 2 is completely reasonable and in-character. He just lost someone very dear to him again, along with a sacred place being destroyed. Naturally, he would want to bring justice, and I say this as someone who supports and romances Anders. I always help kick him out of Kirkwall with Aveline, but he does help rebuild the place under certain circumstances. I don't know...the poor guy jut isn't given enough credit. I love him and he is always in my party. It really bothers me that he is always excluded from everything. If I weren't stuck on mobile, I could probably type out a better response defending him.
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Post by Crimson on May 25, 2017 1:53:08 GMT
I personally don't understand Kylo Ren fans. It is just so inconceivable how the fanbase worships a guy who killed his father and betrayed the Skywalker line. I even saw a Happy Father's Day card with Kylo Ren on the front. Isn't that just... a low blow? I mean, seriously, it is just strange to me. This one time at Toys'R'Us (yes, I am a toy collector) a fellow customer came up to me and asked which figure is Darth Vader's son because she needed a figure for her grandson's party. This was around Force Awakens's release, and there were none of Luke Skywalker. I told her this, and she said, "No, Darth Vader's son... that guy named Kyle." I replied, "That's Darth Vader's grandson and his name is Ben Solo or Kyle Ren. Luke is Vader's son. 'No, I am your father...' is the quote from the old movies remember?" The lady looked at me like I literally slapped her, scoffed, and mumbled, "He is just getting Captain America!" Like... okay? You asked, I gave an answer, Janice. Fuck off and may the Force hit your saggy ass on the way out. okay, I'll stop now...
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obiwancomeblowme
The Beastmaster
Jaal's Lollipop
I am no Jedi.
Posts: 818
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Post by obiwancomeblowme on May 25, 2017 1:55:32 GMT
I personally don't understand Kylo Ren fans. It is just so inconceivable how the fanbase worships a guy who killed his father and betrayed the Skywalker line. I even saw a Happy Father's Day card with Kylo Ren on the front. Isn't that just... a low blow? I mean, seriously, it is just strange to me. This one time at Toys'R'Us (yes, I am a toy collector) a fellow customer came up to me and asked which figure is Darth Vader's son because she needed a figure for her grandson's party. This was around Force Awakens's release, and there were none of Luke Skywalker. I told her this, and she said, "No, Darth Vader's son... that guy named Kyle." I replied, "That's Darth Vader's grandson and his name is Ben Solo or Kyle Ren. Luke is Vader's son. 'No, I am your father...' is the quote from the old movies remember?" The lady looked at me like I literally slapped her, scoffed, and mumbled, "He is just getting Captain America!" Like... okay? You asked, I gave an answer, Janice. Fuck off and may the Force hit your saggy ass on the way out. okay, I'll stop now... I loved those. Kylo is such a meme to me, not a villain. He is no Jacen Solo.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2017 2:10:56 GMT
I don't understand the love for... 1. Lace Harding. She's boring and has like five lines in the whole game. 2. Dagna. Also boring and her personality is annoying. 3. The Chargers. Aside from Krem they each have about one line a piece and look weird to boot. 4. Carver. He's a little shithead who sells out his brother. 5. Shale. Her lines aren't funny. BOOM I said it
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Post by The Haunting of Praise Adrast on May 25, 2017 2:24:54 GMT
I don't understand the love for... 1. Lace Harding. She's boring and has like five lines in the whole game. 2. Dagna. Also boring and her personality is annoying. 3. The Chargers. Aside from Krem they each have about one line a piece and look weird to boot. 4. Carver. He's a little shithead who sells out his brother. 5. Shale. Her lines aren't funny. BOOM I said it YESSSS I totally agree with all of the---WAIT A MINUTE !!! !!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Crimson on May 25, 2017 2:28:22 GMT
I don't understand the love for... 1. Lace Harding. She's boring and has like five lines in the whole game.
2. Dagna. Also boring and her personality is annoying. 3. The Chargers. Aside from Krem they each have about one line a piece and look weird to boot. 4. Carver. He's a little shithead who sells out his brother. 5. Shale. Her lines aren't funny. BOOM I said it Add me to the, I don't get people wetting themselves over her group.
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