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Post by elegantman on Aug 15, 2019 9:29:41 GMT
but maybe I misunderstood what was said Yes maybe you did? Sure they can be copy paste inside the same game If they CAN be copypasted in the same game then sure love scene in Technomancer looks like copypaste of itself. Its the same scene for all characters. Except in Andrew`s case it`s for some reason male pc in a woman`s role\position there. Not Andrew on the place of Nisha and Amelia but PC. Thats why theory that Andrew was meant to be straight make sense. because when you start a new game, you re-use at first the assets of the previous one before replacing them, so if the previous game (which is often the case) was starring a male main character, following one will have a male integrated first (Maybe you had Geralt de Riv walking around a CyberPunk environment in the pre-alpha of the game) Something seems odd here. If one can copypaste "assets of previous game" sure one can copy scenes too. As scenes I mean how character moves and what they do. So love scene with Siora looks very similar to Technomancer. Maybe similarity in Siora`s scene is not fault of programmers but just a bad writing. Lack of screenwriter`s imagination or something. But just economy of resources seams more believable. Also combat in general in Greedfall looks very similar to Technomancer.
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Post by elegantman on Aug 15, 2019 9:41:09 GMT
Sure, I'm not saying don't vote with your wallet, I'm saying "be loud on what that non-purchase means". And also choose who you spam, as it's the publishers that have the last word on what will be in the game and what won't and they are the one in charge of the marketing too. So EA, Focus Home Interactive and Big Ben are the targets. Regarding spamming to big company who`s at fault at making bad lgbt content. What about EA, maxis and bioware. Maxis makes the Sims game right? So Sims game always had gay marriages and since last year they have transgender characters in their game. They also have promotion trailers with lgbt. So EA "allows" them to do it, but somehow forbids bioware to make good lgbt characters? So maybe its not EA`s fault but fault of bioware itself? I don`t think it`s EA`s CEOs who write character`s arcs and plot.
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Post by chillsloth on Aug 15, 2019 11:06:40 GMT
Sure, I'm not saying don't vote with your wallet, I'm saying "be loud on what that non-purchase means". And also choose who you spam, as it's the publishers that have the last word on what will be in the game and what won't and they are the one in charge of the marketing too. So EA, Focus Home Interactive and Big Ben are the targets. Regarding spamming to big company who`s at fault at making bad lgbt content. What about EA, maxis and bioware. Maxis makes the Sims game right? So Sims game always had gay marriages and since last year they have transgender characters in their game. They also have promotion trailers with lgbt. So EA "allows" them to do it, but somehow forbids bioware to make good lgbt characters? So maybe its not EA`s fault but fault of bioware itself? I don`t think it`s EA`s CEOs who write character`s arcs and plot. That's a very good question, and not an easy answer. Usually, studios are creative people, happy to experience new style, new narration, have very diverse employees etc... and publishers are about money, what is bankable and not, not interested in video games, all WASPs or equivalent, out from marketing and business school (that is HORRIBLY cliché what I have said, and of course it's not 100% the truth but it gives you a rough idea). So usually, publishers say no to studio for more inclusivity (I have personally seen a publisher said no for a black main character). BUT, the stronger a studio is, the more it can impose its ideas to the publisher. Maxis is published by EA, but Maxis is what have made EA being that powerful, they started the first game with a very inclusive approach, and they're gonna continue like that, whatever EA has to think about it. Even if Mass Effect have been successful, it's absolutely not at a level of "the Sims" (more than 200 millions games sold I think) and it's hard to imagine Bioware boss, asking more budget to work on romances when from EA point of view that's a "sci fi RPG, with gun, made for male 15-35 years old". Back to Greedfall, I guess you have the same mechanic, with DontNod that have definitely more the weight to do what they want (but saying that, Life is Strange was published by SquareEnix, not Focus) than Spiders. Focus doesn't have a good reputation in these subjects, they are lucky some of their head people didn't fall during "metoo".
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Post by nickclark89 on Aug 15, 2019 11:38:56 GMT
Guys I got new companion info and other things and I'm making a PM group to share it for obvious reasons. Like this if you want to join (or if you dislike me make a comment lmao) or send letter with a crow but that would be animal exploitation and you know how I hate that... I dont know! but make sure to let me know you want to be in the group. edit. guys I'm stupid af and I dont know how to make a PM group can anybody teach me??? edit2. NO WORRIES! I learned it myself XD edit3. ok to see if this PM group thing works I'm adding everyone that is regular on this thread, you can exit from the group yourself if you want anytime! edit4. if I forgot someone please let me know!!! I only added people that recently made and liked comments only
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Post by chillsloth on Aug 15, 2019 16:07:45 GMT
Something seems odd here. If one can copypaste "assets of previous game" sure one can copy scenes too. As scenes I mean how character moves and what they do. So love scene with Siora looks very similar to Technomancer. Maybe similarity in Siora`s scene is not fault of programmers but just a bad writing. Lack of screenwriter`s imagination or something. But just economy of resources seams more believable. Also combat in general in Greedfall looks very similar to Technomancer. Scenes aren't assets, and they are probably motion captured, so no, it's really a lack of imagination, time and also not being used of doing love scenes (plus 3D characters touching each other is always a pain to animate) For the combat, you have the design of it (what you can do, which strategy is the best) and the implementation. The design is certainly similar, as it's an iteration of the previous one (they did a design, took what worked, changed what doesn't). It costs way too much to "reinvent" one. But the integration has to be fully redone, as it's based on the Greedfall characters models and animations. Tell me if I start to get boring with my technical gibberish xD, these things seem obvious for me, but I know they're not.
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Post by elegantman on Aug 15, 2019 16:30:11 GMT
Tell me if I start to get boring with my technical gibberish xD, these things seem obvious for me, but I know they're not. No, that`s an interesting information.
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Post by BansheeOwnage on Aug 15, 2019 23:45:25 GMT
Sorry, but this is definitely not the case. Bisexual romance paths are usually identical besides pronouns, at least in any games I've played. And this usually works fine. The most extreme example and the one that most assuredly doesn't work fine is Peebee in Mass Effect: Andromeda, whose love scene with female Ryder is a copy-paste of her scene with male Ryder, making it flat-out anatomically incorrect. Reyes, in the same game, has similar animation issues due to copy-pasting the animation with one gender that doesn't line up with the other. As an aside, both of the above problems stem from making each scene with the straight path first, and being okay with it not working for the same-sex version. Sure they can be copy paste inside the same game, but what I was saying (but maybe I misunderstood what was said) is that it can't be copy-paste from one previous game to the next one. For the making of the male before the female, it's often because the publisher wants marketing material with male main character BUT ALSO (fun fact) because when you start a new game, you re-use at first the assets of the previous one before replacing them, so if the previous game (which is often the case) was starring a male main character, following one will have a male integrated first (Maybe you had Geralt de Riv walking around a CyberPunk environment in the pre-alpha of the game) Ah, gotcha! It does seem like we had a little miscommunication there, so I'm glad we've cleared that up. I didn't realize you were talking about copy-pasting them between games.
Interesting info about using a previous game's assets while initially creating the next, too. If that's the case, it seems like the cycle of male leads getting priority will be a tough one to break...
Still they decided to give less to LGBT players(esp gay men, sioara being bi and having a big plot role gives girls more content though not more than to straight men ofc) and not anything else as a way to cut finances, add to that the reasoning about "too many" gays being unrealistic in historic setting but magical creatures ,plague and so on not makes me not to but this game even on sale. F*ck them. Did they say anything about "too many" gays? We discovered that the interview talking about "allowing same-sex romances in a historical setting" was actually misleading and unfair, and the lead dev also said perhaps they should have made Siora and Vasco gay rather than bi.
I'm not saying it doesn't suck and you can't be angry - it does and I am too - just trying to be fair here.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2019 4:06:40 GMT
Sure they can be copy paste inside the same game, but what I was saying (but maybe I misunderstood what was said) is that it can't be copy-paste from one previous game to the next one. For the making of the male before the female, it's often because the publisher wants marketing material with male main character BUT ALSO (fun fact) because when you start a new game, you re-use at first the assets of the previous one before replacing them, so if the previous game (which is often the case) was starring a male main character, following one will have a male integrated first (Maybe you had Geralt de Riv walking around a CyberPunk environment in the pre-alpha of the game) Ah, gotcha! It does seem like we had a little miscommunication there, so I'm glad we've cleared that up. I didn't realize you were talking about copy-pasting them between games.
Interesting info about using a previous game's assets while initially creating the next, too. If that's the case, it seems like the cycle of male leads getting priority will be a tough one to break...
Still they decided to give less to LGBT players(esp gay men, sioara being bi and having a big plot role gives girls more content though not more than to straight men ofc) and not anything else as a way to cut finances, add to that the reasoning about "too many" gays being unrealistic in historic setting but magical creatures ,plague and so on not makes me not to but this game even on sale. F*ck them. Did they say anything about "too many" gays? We discovered that the interview talking about "allowing same-sex romances in a historical setting" was actually misleading and unfair, and the lead dev also said perhaps they should have made Siora and Vasco gay rather than bi.
I'm not saying it doesn't suck and you can't be angry - it does and I am too - just trying to be fair here.
I don't care what they think they should have done, I care about what they ended up doing doing. And they decided to prioritize straight players again. So even if there are some mistakes in the article it doesn't change anything.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2019 4:08:56 GMT
Ah, gotcha! It does seem like we had a little miscommunication there, so I'm glad we've cleared that up. I didn't realize you were talking about copy-pasting them between games.
Interesting info about using a previous game's assets while initially creating the next, too. If that's the case, it seems like the cycle of male leads getting priority will be a tough one to break...
Did they say anything about "too many" gays? We discovered that the interview talking about "allowing same-sex romances in a historical setting" was actually misleading and unfair, and the lead dev also said perhaps they should have made Siora and Vasco gay rather than bi.
I'm not saying it doesn't suck and you can't be angry - it does and I am too - just trying to be fair here.
I don't care what they think they should have done, I care about what they ended up doing doing. And they decided to prioritize straight players again. So even if there are some mistakes in the article it doesn't change anything. And if ppl still decide to buy it, it's up to them, but I don't want devs thinking that's it's ok to give scraps to lgbt in the future as well. "They will still buy it since they are starving mwahah " 😤
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2019 5:45:19 GMT
So. I'm not getting this game since you can't play as a Native, but peeking into this thread on a rare occasion can be somewhat disheartening (One reason is long past thankfully). But the next reason is recent, and it really bothers me. I didn't post anything since I felt it'd come off as petty and I'm not sure if I'd be able to word it out clearly, but I don't feel it's right to just leave it stewing. It's about the Natives, the few they've shown don't look all that Native and worst of all the companion character we get to rep them looks white! And in here we've had some posters mention that they'd rather the natives be plantfolk, which yeah maybe they should've been since they don't look native. You know, I have to wonder if the devs consulted any tribe about language, customs, and clothing style. I'd guess they might've done research, but no consultation. Fun Fact: the devs for 2013 Killer Instinct consulted the Nez Perce about Thunder's design and language. Even Quantic Dream did some research despite some nitpicks I had with the Navajo chapter. As a last thing, I feel like Nightwolf is better rep than these natives; Nightwolf still looks fairly stereotypical, and they've retconned him from being Lakota Sioux into belonging to a fictional tribe called the Matoka, yet he still refers to Raiden as Haokah, and both his VA's (Larry Omaha in 9, and Daniel Lujan in 11) sound native. I'm looking at this, and honestly feel a little upset since I feel like there is more to post about this subject but I'm not so sure how to word it out or if that's all I really have to say.
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Post by BansheeOwnage on Aug 16, 2019 6:18:38 GMT
So. I'm not getting this game since you can't play as a Native, but peeking into this thread on a rare occasion can be somewhat disheartening (One reason is long past thankfully). But the next reason is recent, and it really bothers me. I didn't post anything since I felt it'd come off as petty and I'm not sure if I'd be able to word it out clearly, but I don't feel it's right to just leave it stewing. It's about the Natives, the few they've shown don't look all that Native and worst of all the companion character we get to rep them looks white! And in here we've had some posters mention that they'd rather the natives be plantfolk, which yeah maybe they should've been since they don't look native. You know, I have to wonder if the devs consulted any tribe about language, customs, and clothing style. I'd guess they might've done research, but no consultation. Fun Fact: the devs for 2013 Killer Instinct consulted the Nez Perce about Thunder's design and language. Even Quantic Dream did some research despite some nitpicks I had with the Navajo chapter. As a last thing, I feel like Nightwolf is better rep than these natives; Nightwolf still looks fairly stereotypical, and they've retconned him from being Lakota Sioux into belonging to a fictional tribe called the Matoka, yet he still refers to Raiden as Haokah, and both his VA's (Larry Omaha in 9, and Daniel Lujan in 11) sound native. I'm looking at this, and honestly feel a little upset since I feel like there is more to post about this subject but I'm not so sure how to word it out or if that's all I really have to say. Hmm. You're actually the first person I've seen to wish Greedfall's natives were more like real life Native Peoples. Which is your right, of course, but it surprised me because a lot of people are uncomfortable with the colonization aspect of the game being even vaguely similar to real life examples. In other words, someone wanting the real life parallels to be stronger isn't what I expected. As far as I'm aware, the intention was never to have either the natives nor the colonizers represent real counterparts (aside from technology and some outfits). From what I understand, both groups are racially-diverse, though I'm not sure to what extent. I've also heard that the GF natives (I forget what they're called - Thaleme, or something?) have more of a Celtic style to them if anything, including their language. I'm not sure how large their island is, but perhaps this story is less like various European countries invading North America and more like a unified continental Europe and England invading a land-locked version of Scotland? I'm not sure, and I'm not telling you what to think, only providing some information. Others know more than I do.
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Post by nickclark89 on Aug 16, 2019 13:50:53 GMT
Also the game is based on a fictional setting and the natives are a fictional race like elves or native aumaua islanders from POE2 Deadfire and like banshee said they are more celtic-based (they are plant people basically, maybe like druids with nature-related powers), without going into details there are a lot of poc people in every faction, I dont know if you want to join to the PM group @tarkus but I assure that all the issues you have are not issues at all. The lack of equality in romance distribution and Spiders losing its independence is where all the ugly things are and why we are so pissed at the game. edit. maybe I'm the one to blame since I thought this game was going to be based on the real 17th century and I was speaking in the beginning of the thread about having real native americans LIs (who are non-existent in rpgs) but then we found out they are plant people lol edit. (I forget what they're called - Thaleme, or something?) Those are the religious faction XD I think I read the name of the native faction somewhere but I cant remember because my memory is shit
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Post by farferello on Aug 16, 2019 16:03:15 GMT
It gives me an unpleasant Templar- and witch burning vibe.
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Post by nickclark89 on Aug 16, 2019 16:10:59 GMT
cant wait to pull an Anders on that nasty faction lmao
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Post by VFerreira93 on Aug 16, 2019 16:20:13 GMT
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Post by BansheeOwnage on Aug 16, 2019 21:10:27 GMT
That concept art is so freaking cool It's too bad they ended up toning down the plant aspects and upping the human aspects. (I forget what they're called - Thaleme, or something?) Those are the religious faction XD I think I read the name of the native faction somewhere but I cant remember because my memory is shit Oh no! I picked the worst faction to get the name mixed up with Thanks for the correction! cant wait to pull an Anders on that nasty faction lmao Your comment is so hilariously accurate It's gonna be awesome
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2019 5:33:16 GMT
Hmm. You're actually the first person I've seen to wish Greedfall's natives were more like real life Native Peoples. Which is your right, of course, but it surprised me because a lot of people are uncomfortable with the colonization aspect of the game being even vaguely similar to real life examples. In other words, someone wanting the real life parallels to be stronger isn't what I expected. Yeah, for me it's always nice to see some Native representation (even when the tribe isn't mentioned or it's something only brought up in an instruction booklet). The parallels are already there so representing us as aliens, elves, or some other fictional race can just come off as: "oh, they're like Native/Indigenous peoples except now they're a fictional race, so you don't have to feel too bad taking an evil choice". And seeing the Native parallel being Celtic (shocker, they're European) inspired peoples, well it just doesn't sit right me. maybe I'm the one to blame Nah. It's much more the marketing, going by that image of the PC wearing the standard/starting outfit that looks like something people wore in Colonial America. And of course there's the parallel of one group encroaching on an Indigenous peoples land for their own gain. tarkus but I assure that all the issues you have are not issues at all. The lack of equality in romance distribution and Spiders losing its independence is where all the ugly things are and why we are so pissed at the game. Me wanting to see some Native representation, in a game taking quite a bit of inspiration from colonial America, isn't an issue? Excuse Me? Am I misunderstanding something? Because that is infuriating to be told. Feeling upset when I see posters say they'd rather have a fictional race because the design is cooler than these Celt (who should've been Native) humans? Yeah, that probably is an overreaction. I'll return to keeping away from this thread since my issues are unwelcome. I understand the romance distribution (straights get choices, Gay & Lesbian getting 1 or none) being a huge issue, and I don't mean to take away from that at all so I'm sorry.
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melange
Dashing Rogue
Posts: 36
Likes: 185
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Post by melange on Aug 17, 2019 6:31:59 GMT
So, I had also said I would stay away from posting about this game publicly, and I really don't want to roll in with an "um actually". But there's some misconceptions here that are causing heartache, and I don't want you to get your hopes up over something and then be disappointed. Yeah, for me it's always nice to see some Native representation (even when the tribe isn't mentioned or it's something only brought up in an instruction booklet). The parallels are already there so representing us as aliens, elves, or some other fictional race can just come off as: "oh, they're like Native/Indigenous peoples except now they're a fictional race, so you don't have to feel too bad taking an evil choice". And seeing the Native parallel being Celtic (shocker, they're European) inspired peoples, well it just doesn't sit right me. I'm really sorry to say this, but you're correct that the island natives are based on Celts. They have Irish (or Irish-ish?) accents, and their overall culture and religion is not even remotely like any Native/Indigenous peoples. And they aren't a fictional race -- I'm not sure where the impression is coming from that they're a fantasy race, or elves, or whatever else. They're human, and have a pretty wide spread of ethnicities. Yes, the visual themes of the game are very Colonial America. But story-wise, a lot closer to the Roman conquest of Britain. That's all I really feel safe saying in public. If you'd like more details, please DM me. You're not wrong for wanting Native representation in games, it's not "an issue". But this game was never meant to be that representation, and people who were interpreting the islanders as equivalent to Native/Indigenous peoples -- and boycotting the game because they assumed the plot is about white people conquering POC natives -- have always been mistaken unfortunately. I'm sorry.
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Post by nickclark89 on Aug 17, 2019 7:11:12 GMT
@tarkus you need to calm the fuck down right there dude and stop twisting my words because I didnt say in any moment that native american representation is a problem or something I dont want to happen BECAUSE I DO AND I THINK IS VERY IMPORTANT TOPIC and I have been very vocal about it on this forum (or do you think I'm only worried about lgbtq rep?), I even spoke about two-spirit people here as form of representation when I thought this game was going to be based on the real 17th century which it's NOT and natives from the game are not based on native americans. That is all. I dont know what gripe you have with me tbh. It's not the first time you twist my words (first happened in the hangout thread that ultimately lead to me to not visit that thread often) so I let you be because seriously I dont need forum stupid made up drama in my life right now. edit. And they aren't a fictional race -- I'm not sure where the impression is coming from that they're a fantasy race, or elves, or whatever else. They're human, and have a pretty wide spread of ethnicities. that is something we have been discussing here a lot due lack of information these two years since well, people with horns and plant-like attributes are not human-ish at all lol I mean elves in DA are just skinny humans with pointy ears, damn I wish they would be more like the tarot cards with a more fae look.
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Post by VFerreira93 on Aug 17, 2019 10:34:38 GMT
I think that, based on general concept art that has been shared here a few times, at some point they tried to go for a more plant-ish sort of people deeply rooted (that pun was horrible, i know xD) in nature with plant-like features like nickclark89 mentioned earlier but then decided to just make them human with deep roots to nature itself and the Island as well.
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