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Post by chillsloth on Aug 17, 2019 13:36:05 GMT
I'm really shocked by how much people who say they care about colonialism and natives (north) Americans know nothing about history. When the first trailer was released, because guy has a tricorne people were like "oh a pirate!" (facepalm) When they said there is an island and colonists"oh it's about natives (north) Americans". I'm gonna win an amazing Godwin point (but I'm sure it's allowed after 150 pages in a thread xD) but as the Shoah is not the only genocide in history, Apaches, Navajos, Sioux, Dakotas and their neighbors are not the only people in the history to have suffered from colonialism. Without even not starting to list every other people that suffered colonialism at the same era (native central and south Americans, Africans, all the different people of Oceania), colonialism happen every time a group of humans, because of a technological or weaponry superiority, enslave, steal, abuse another group, starting to live in the middle of them as victorious masters. You even don't need a "new land", I mean, ask a Syrian or a Jordanian what they think of the Turkish? they still have the scars of the Ottoman empire (and don't let me start on Japanese in China). Boudica fought hard against the roman Empire. Why is that shocking that a Celtic civilization can be abused and colonized? Colonialism is an important subject, and it's still unfortunately very actual, we should be happy to have games trying to speak about it, instead of a basic "black knight vs white knight" saving a princess story.
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Post by dgcatanisiri on Aug 17, 2019 15:23:51 GMT
I'm really shocked by how much people who say they care about colonialism and natives (north) Americans know nothing about history. When the first trailer was released, because guy has a tricorne people were like "oh a pirate!" (facepalm) When they said there is an island and colonists"oh it's about natives (north) Americans". I'm gonna win an amazing Godwin point (but I'm sure it's allowed after 150 pages in a thread xD) but as the Shoah is not the only genocide in history, Apaches, Navajos, Sioux, Dakotas and their neighbors are not the only people in the history to have suffered from colonialism. Without even not starting to list every other people that suffered colonialism at the same era (native central and south Americans, Africans, all the different people of Oceania), colonialism happen every time a group of humans, because of a technological or weaponry superiority, enslave, steal, abuse another group, starting to live in the middle of them as victorious masters. You even don't need a "new land", I mean, ask a Syrian or a Jordanian what they think of the Turkish? they still have the scars of the Ottoman empire (and don't let me start on Japanese in China). Boudica fought hard against the roman Empire. Why is that shocking that a Celtic civilization can be abused and colonized? Colonialism is an important subject, and it's still unfortunately very actual, we should be happy to have games trying to speak about it, instead of a basic "black knight vs white knight" saving a princess story. American viewpoints are nationally focused, and that's something that's hard to break away from - this is the history of colonialism that we're familiar with, and the history we have says that we've kinda fucked this up and never even tried to make it better. Hell, even now, we still struggle with where the line is with cultural appreciation versus cultural appropriation, and what we can and cannot use without the proper context or permission. For a lot of people, it becomes a case of "better to overcorrect than to be offensive, because this group being offended has been the norm." Also, the in-game natives might be more Celtic-inspired, but to an American audience, when we see people crossing the sea to a new land, we apply our history of this particular past. Especially considering the magic of the setting - for a good chunk of people my age (late twenties/early thirties), we lived through a time that had media portrayals of Native Americans say they were mystical and spiritual - not just that there was spirituality in their cultures (which also got homogenized into some kind of monolithic "Indian" culture, rather than being dozens of separate individual ones), but that they were actually magical. Look at Disney's Pocahontas, a movie that really played into these squirrelly ideas that there was something inherently magical about the Native Americans. This is imagery that made up what media portrayed Native Americans were to my generation, and we're going to apply that when looking at something that lights up those similarities in our monkey brains. We see Native cultures, we see magic, we go to Native Americans being colonized by white people, we think of the "magical Native American" tropes, we go "bad bad bad."
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Post by chillsloth on Aug 17, 2019 16:48:47 GMT
I'm really shocked by how much people who say they care about colonialism and natives (north) Americans know nothing about history. When the first trailer was released, because guy has a tricorne people were like "oh a pirate!" (facepalm) When they said there is an island and colonists"oh it's about natives (north) Americans". I'm gonna win an amazing Godwin point (but I'm sure it's allowed after 150 pages in a thread xD) but as the Shoah is not the only genocide in history, Apaches, Navajos, Sioux, Dakotas and their neighbors are not the only people in the history to have suffered from colonialism. Without even not starting to list every other people that suffered colonialism at the same era (native central and south Americans, Africans, all the different people of Oceania), colonialism happen every time a group of humans, because of a technological or weaponry superiority, enslave, steal, abuse another group, starting to live in the middle of them as victorious masters. You even don't need a "new land", I mean, ask a Syrian or a Jordanian what they think of the Turkish? they still have the scars of the Ottoman empire (and don't let me start on Japanese in China). Boudica fought hard against the roman Empire. Why is that shocking that a Celtic civilization can be abused and colonized? Colonialism is an important subject, and it's still unfortunately very actual, we should be happy to have games trying to speak about it, instead of a basic "black knight vs white knight" saving a princess story. American viewpoints are nationally focused, and that's something that's hard to break away from - this is the history of colonialism that we're familiar with, and the history we have says that we've kinda fucked this up and never even tried to make it better. Hell, even now, we still struggle with where the line is with cultural appreciation versus cultural appropriation, and what we can and cannot use without the proper context or permission. For a lot of people, it becomes a case of "better to overcorrect than to be offensive, because this group being offended has been the norm." Also, the in-game natives might be more Celtic-inspired, but to an American audience, when we see people crossing the sea to a new land, we apply our history of this particular past. Especially considering the magic of the setting - for a good chunk of people my age (late twenties/early thirties), we lived through a time that had media portrayals of Native Americans say they were mystical and spiritual - not just that there was spirituality in their cultures (which also got homogenized into some kind of monolithic "Indian" culture, rather than being dozens of separate individual ones), but that they were actually magical. Look at Disney's Pocahontas, a movie that really played into these squirrelly ideas that there was something inherently magical about the Native Americans. This is imagery that made up what media portrayed Native Americans were to my generation, and we're going to apply that when looking at something that lights up those similarities in our monkey brains. We see Native cultures, we see magic, we go to Native Americans being colonized by white people, we think of the "magical Native American" tropes, we go "bad bad bad." Yeah, I perfectly understand that. (even if Moana, El Dorado, Cities of Gold or whatever film/serie usually portray anything not judeo/christian/western civilisation as "magic", any people "close to nature" in a way). And I was more reacting to the previous aggressive comment (not from you). But after the "first gut reaction", I think we also have a duty to think at a more worldwide level. Nowadays, on the planet, the vast majority of people are or descendant of colonists, or descendant of colonized people (or both ^^). And even with the "sea" aspect, seeing only natives north Americans, is "kinda insulting" (strong word, I didn't find better) for every other civilization of central and southern America and Oceania (I mean, still now what happen in Australia is just.... grrrrrr or genocide against Maya in Guatemala....). Anyway, for me the problem is not talking about it, but how you do it, which unfortunately, right now the only thing we can do is to wait the first walk-through on YouTube (as we can't trust Focus marketing to give a honest portrait of the game xD). And in a way, knowing a big part of the audience will be European and Northern American, I think it's more interesting to play as a colonist. Playing as a Native is "easy", go bad ass and kick invaders out, while playing colonist and have to reconsider your whole education and conception of the world is a stronger message imho.
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Post by BansheeOwnage on Aug 18, 2019 6:02:13 GMT
*snip* Anyway, for me the problem is not talking about it, but how you do it, which unfortunately, right now the only thing we can do is to wait the first walk-through on YouTube (as we can't trust Focus marketing to give a honest portrait of the game xD). And in a way, knowing a big part of the audience will be European and Northern American, I think it's more interesting to play as a colonist. Playing as a Native is "easy", go bad ass and kick invaders out, while playing colonist and have to reconsider your whole education and conception of the world is a stronger message imho. I agree that the "how" is what's important here, which is why my attitude towards this aspect of the game has always been "Let's see how it plays out in the game itself before making a final judgement". To make a concept as broad as colonialism off-limits would be fool-hardy, because you're right - it is something people should think about, and being put in the position of a non-native has potential as an interesting way of doing that. At a personal level, I definitely didn't only think of First Nations here in North America when thinking of colonialism and/or invasion in general. Like you said, that has been happening virtually everywhere, forever. We learned about the atrocities committed on this continent at school, but we also learned about many more, in other places, and I've heard more non-Canadian history through general life-osmosis as well. I would have liked the Greedfall natives to be the plant-people we saw in concept art as they were quite unique, but I'm happy with their apparent Celtic vibe. I don't really know what I'm trying to say anymore. I'm tired and rambling I guess I just think people should wait and see what the game itself is like and not put too much stock into marketing... and consequently that I really wish the marketing was better
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benamin
The Beastmaster
Proud to be THAI, Buddhist, Royalist and Gay
Posts: 606
Likes: 2,030
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Post by benamin on Aug 18, 2019 6:59:36 GMT
As a people from nation that used to be invade by Europe (and survive them), Theme of this game not disturb me at all. As long as it have a choice.
But yeah I have no plan to side with invader because I know something about being invade.
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benamin
The Beastmaster
Proud to be THAI, Buddhist, Royalist and Gay
Posts: 606
Likes: 2,030
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Post by benamin on Aug 18, 2019 13:08:49 GMT
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Joey
The Beastmaster
Pizza Emperor
Posts: 460
Likes: 2,241
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Post by Joey on Aug 19, 2019 7:43:09 GMT
Guys I got new companion info and other things and I'm making a PM group to share it for obvious reasons. Like this if you want to join (or if you dislike me make a comment lmao) or send letter with a crow but that would be animal exploitation and you know how I hate that... I dont know! but make sure to let me know you want to be in the group. edit. guys I'm stupid af and I dont know how to make a PM group can anybody teach me??? edit2. NO WORRIES! I learned it myself XD edit3. ok to see if this PM group thing works I'm adding everyone that is regular on this thread, you can exit from the group yourself if you want anytime! edit4. if I forgot someone please let me know!!! I only added people that recently made and liked comments only Could you add me, please?
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Joey
The Beastmaster
Pizza Emperor
Posts: 460
Likes: 2,241
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Post by Joey on Aug 19, 2019 7:51:49 GMT
American viewpoints are nationally focused, and that's something that's hard to break away from - this is the history of colonialism that we're familiar with, and the history we have says that we've kinda fucked this up and never even tried to make it better. Hell, even now, we still struggle with where the line is with cultural appreciation versus cultural appropriation, and what we can and cannot use without the proper context or permission. For a lot of people, it becomes a case of "better to overcorrect than to be offensive, because this group being offended has been the norm." Also, the in-game natives might be more Celtic-inspired, but to an American audience, when we see people crossing the sea to a new land, we apply our history of this particular past. Especially considering the magic of the setting - for a good chunk of people my age (late twenties/early thirties), we lived through a time that had media portrayals of Native Americans say they were mystical and spiritual - not just that there was spirituality in their cultures (which also got homogenized into some kind of monolithic "Indian" culture, rather than being dozens of separate individual ones), but that they were actually magical. Look at Disney's Pocahontas, a movie that really played into these squirrelly ideas that there was something inherently magical about the Native Americans. This is imagery that made up what media portrayed Native Americans were to my generation, and we're going to apply that when looking at something that lights up those similarities in our monkey brains. We see Native cultures, we see magic, we go to Native Americans being colonized by white people, we think of the "magical Native American" tropes, we go "bad bad bad." Yeah, I perfectly understand that. (even if Moana, El Dorado, Cities of Gold or whatever film/serie usually portray anything not judeo/christian/western civilisation as "magic", any people "close to nature" in a way). And I was more reacting to the previous aggressive comment (not from you). But after the "first gut reaction", I think we also have a duty to think at a more worldwide level. Nowadays, on the planet, the vast majority of people are or descendant of colonists, or descendant of colonized people (or both ^^). And even with the "sea" aspect, seeing only natives north Americans, is "kinda insulting" (strong word, I didn't find better) for every other civilization of central and southern America and Oceania (I mean, still now what happen in Australia is just.... grrrrrr or genocide against Maya in Guatemala....). Anyway, for me the problem is not talking about it, but how you do it, which unfortunately, right now the only thing we can do is to wait the first walk-through on YouTube (as we can't trust Focus marketing to give a honest portrait of the game xD). And in a way, knowing a big part of the audience will be European and Northern American, I think it's more interesting to play as a colonist. Playing as a Native is "easy", go bad ass and kick invaders out, while playing colonist and have to reconsider your whole education and conception of the world is a stronger message imho. Sorry for this big off-top, but how's Focus Interactive? Do they have a lot to say when it comes to games development?
I'm asking, because Focus is one of our potential publishers for one game my studio is working on and I want to know what should I expect. Will they limit our creativity?
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Post by chillsloth on Aug 19, 2019 8:05:35 GMT
Sorry for this big off-top, but how's Focus Interactive? Do they have a lot to say when it comes to games development?
I'm asking, because Focus is one of our potential publishers for one game my studio is working on and I want to know what should I expect. Will they limit our creativity? Hi, if you want to talk about potential publishers and be advised, contact me through PM, I'm in the industry for a very long time now, and may be able to help you.
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benamin
The Beastmaster
Proud to be THAI, Buddhist, Royalist and Gay
Posts: 606
Likes: 2,030
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Post by benamin on Aug 19, 2019 13:00:43 GMT
Companion trailer is out but look like it too early so it become unavailable right now.
Many spoiler if you ask me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2019 15:32:29 GMT
Many spoiler if you ask me. How spoilery would you say? Cuz I might just not watch it lol
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Post by farferello on Aug 19, 2019 17:10:54 GMT
Watched the trailer... do they even remember that there's more than Siora to romance? If they're going to focus on her for trailers at least show her a bit more with female De Sardet for a change. Was interesting to watch, nice little bit of extra info for each I suppose. I'm... somewhat concerned about the bit where it looked like Kurt was pulling a gun on Vasco though. I still wonder why they keep trying to market the game as so... ~morally grey~ as they are. Also, lol, 'swap out your companions often' lol nah, I don't play rpgs that way, I use the same two companions and then when suddenly forced to use others, they all have crap gear.
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Post by VFerreira93 on Aug 19, 2019 17:17:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2019 17:17:30 GMT
Here it is since the one benamin posted is invalid.
Edit: Deleted vid since Vitor posted it right as I did.
and all the romance stuff is back to being m/f LOL ok then.
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Post by VFerreira93 on Aug 19, 2019 17:18:31 GMT
Here it is since the one benamin posted is invalid *snip* I'm afraid you got ninjaed
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2019 17:21:43 GMT
Here it is since the one benamin posted is invalid *snip* I'm afraid you got ninjaed I ninaj'd you telling me I got ninja'd
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Post by VFerreira93 on Aug 19, 2019 17:23:26 GMT
I'm afraid you got ninjaed I ninaj'd you telling me I got ninja'd We ninja'd each other, then! Fair enough xP
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2019 20:16:59 GMT
I need to know who this is...for...reasons.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2019 20:25:50 GMT
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Post by farferello on Aug 19, 2019 20:40:02 GMT
I'm glad that companions do seem to talk during combat, I was half expecting them to be silent so that's quite nice. Combat does look less clunky than older videos (and certainly seems like it'd feel less clunky than some of what Technomancer had.) Dat Charisma tree I know where my points are going.
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