mrslothy
The Beastmaster
Elcor in the Fade
Posts: 639 
Likes: 2,006
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Post by mrslothy on May 22, 2017 21:47:39 GMT
okay, here we discuss all things cole related.
let me start- at first i disliked cole and his constant babbling, probably exacerbated by me playing a no-nonsense inky first, and we never really got to be friend because he equally disapproved and approved my shit.
still, he was like vivienne for me, he grew on me. now i actually find him one of the more touching characters/companions in dai, and i learned to love how writers incorporated him as a very natural window into many of our companions inner thoughts and feelings, some great hints about lore, as well as making him a bit of a "spock" to our "kirk".
his human/spirit paths have truly amazing moments.
in human route, it's beautiful the way he thanks inky for worrying about him, and later again for being there when he's explaining how real cole felt before his death. these instances show his humanity manifesting and connecting more closely with people around him, and make for some wonderful emotional moments.
it kind of saddens me at the same time, since i believe the spirit route is actually the best for him. he is not human and he probably shouldn't strive to become one. us humans, we're not so amazing to deserve to be an ideal to look up to. how long before this learning enjoyment becomes a weight of regret, melancholy or even resentment? if anything, i feel spirit route honors cole's true nature and affirms his uniqueness in a world full of personas. he already is more than a spirit but by allowing him to forget selectively enables him to move on. it is hard to watch, since cole remains more distant an less attached, spirit route lacks some more touching moments but i guess that is just human in me wanting to see emotional connections.
oh, and here is one of my favourite banters with cole. only this outlandish character could make statements like these with credibility, and the parallel with maker is simply beautiful
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 5:34:29 GMT
The greatness of Cole's character is that he is a mirror for everyone around him. His character was uniquely positioned to allow the player to experience some of the deeper parts of the followers, and for that I think he's great to bring around in any party combination. Even the ultimate human/spirit choice seems like it's more about the player or roleplay, than about Cole himself. I've read so many different things from players, why they choose one path over the other. I don't think any are right or wrong, which is the beauty of such a choice in the game. I think my favorite follower/Cole relationship is the one he develops with Cassandra. She is initially suspicious and guarded, but over time comes to like and trust him. Cassandra: What of magister Erimond? Do you sense a secret pain in him? Cole: No. Erimond is an asshole. Cassandra: (Laughs.) Well said.  And of course, as a Dorian fan, all of the things Cole has to say about him are greatly important to me in understanding the character. The only thing that I find unfortunate is that his introduction is on the templar path. That mission is one of the only times the Inquisitor (and player) gets to experience Cole on a personal level. Because of the necessities of roleplay, I recognize that Cole can't have too many interactions with the PC on that same level, because there is the potential to rob the player of that roleplay agency. So, for that reason, I regret that he is tied to the templar path. |
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Post by gaycaravaggio on May 23, 2017 5:42:27 GMT
I wish he got with Krem instead of Maryden.  |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 5:57:35 GMT
I wish he got with Krem instead of Maryden. Hm... it seems to me that the whole point of Maryden is her reaching people through music, so Cole relates to that on a personal level and they have that connection. I think there also might have been too many variables there. First you have to check for Cole spirit yes/no. If Cole is human, then he hooks up with Krem. If Cole is spirit, then who does Krem end up with? But Krem can also die, adding yet another variable. If Cole is human and Krem dies, who does Cole end up with? The current case has Maryden be the constant, with the single variable of Cole being human. If Cole is a spirit and Krem is killed, then no one gets Maryden. It just seems more simple all around. |
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Post by gaycaravaggio on May 23, 2017 6:00:00 GMT
I wish he got with Krem instead of Maryden. Hm... it seems to me that the whole point of Maryden is her reaching people through music, so Cole relates to that on a personal level and they have that connection. I think there also might have been too many variables there. First you have to check for Cole spirit yes/no. If Cole is human, then he hooks up with Krem. If Cole is spirit, then who does Krem end up with? But Krem can also die, adding yet another variable. If Cole is human and Krem dies, who does Cole end up with? The current case has Maryden be the constant, with the single variable of Cole being human. If Cole is a spirit and Krem is killed, then no one gets Maryden. It just seems more simple all around. I'm just salty that the constant was "Maryden needs a man."  |
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mrslothy
The Beastmaster
Elcor in the Fade
Posts: 639
Likes: 2,006
|
Post by mrslothy on May 24, 2017 21:06:52 GMT
The current case has Maryden be the constant, with the single variable of Cole being human. If Cole is a spirit and Krem is killed, then no one gets Maryden. It just seems more simple all around. or she gets ZITHER! or whatever that asshole's name is |
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mrslothy
The Beastmaster
Elcor in the Fade
Posts: 639
Likes: 2,006
|
Post by mrslothy on May 24, 2017 21:11:22 GMT
The greatness of Cole's character is that he is a mirror for everyone around him. His character was uniquely positioned to allow the player to experience some of the deeper parts of the followers, and for that I think he's great to bring around in any party combination. Even the ultimate human/spirit choice seems like it's more about the player or roleplay, than about Cole himself. I've read so many different things from players, why they choose one path over the other. I don't think any are right or wrong, which is the beauty of such a choice in the game. I think my favorite follower/Cole relationship is the one he develops with Cassandra. She is initially suspicious and guarded, but over time comes to like and trust him. Cassandra: What of magister Erimond? Do you sense a secret pain in him? Cole: No. Erimond is an asshole. Cassandra: (Laughs.) Well said. And of course, as a Dorian fan, all of the things Cole has to say about him are greatly important to me in understanding the character. The only thing that I find unfortunate is that his introduction is on the templar path. That mission is one of the only times the Inquisitor (and player) gets to experience Cole on a personal level. Because of the necessities of roleplay, I recognize that Cole can't have too many interactions with the PC on that same level, because there is the potential to rob the player of that roleplay agency. So, for that reason, I regret that he is tied to the templar path. yes to everything here. i'm almost kind of afraid who will take cole's place in da4, precisely because we got to see so much of the deeper feeling from other folowers, sometimes even some crucial information. i think romance with bull and dorian is much more rounded and even mitigates to an extent some of the lower points of their relationships with inky (both are hiding their emotions for the most part, either behind a trained spy stoicism or sarcasm and posturing). i take cole into party solely for the banter |
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Post by gaycaravaggio on May 25, 2017 0:22:09 GMT
The greatness of Cole's character is that he is a mirror for everyone around him. His character was uniquely positioned to allow the player to experience some of the deeper parts of the followers, and for that I think he's great to bring around in any party combination. Even the ultimate human/spirit choice seems like it's more about the player or roleplay, than about Cole himself. I've read so many different things from players, why they choose one path over the other. I don't think any are right or wrong, which is the beauty of such a choice in the game. I think my favorite follower/Cole relationship is the one he develops with Cassandra. She is initially suspicious and guarded, but over time comes to like and trust him. Cassandra: What of magister Erimond? Do you sense a secret pain in him? Cole: No. Erimond is an asshole. Cassandra: (Laughs.) Well said. And of course, as a Dorian fan, all of the things Cole has to say about him are greatly important to me in understanding the character. The only thing that I find unfortunate is that his introduction is on the templar path. That mission is one of the only times the Inquisitor (and player) gets to experience Cole on a personal level. Because of the necessities of roleplay, I recognize that Cole can't have too many interactions with the PC on that same level, because there is the potential to rob the player of that roleplay agency. So, for that reason, I regret that he is tied to the templar path. yes to everything here. i'm almost kind of afraid who will take cole's place in da4, precisely because we got to see so much of the deeper feeling from other folowers, sometimes even some crucial information. i think romance with bull and dorian is much more rounded and even mitigates to an extent some of the lower points of their relationships with inky (both are hiding their emotions for the most part, either behind a trained spy stoicism or sarcasm and posturing). i take cole into party solely for the banter Yeah, Cole had such an interesting position in the character layout. He could peel back those layers and get to the nitty gritty of it. I doubt we'll ever get a character who's such a mindreader ever again. It's possible though that we could get a very observant companion who notices things about others and points them out. Kind of like an Iron Bull that's more talkative about the stuff they notice from other characters. |
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mrslothy
The Beastmaster
Elcor in the Fade
Posts: 639
Likes: 2,006
|
Post by mrslothy on May 25, 2017 7:54:25 GMT
Yeah, Cole had such an interesting position in the character layout. He could peel back those layers and get to the nitty gritty of it. I doubt we'll ever get a character who's such a mindreader ever again. It's possible though that we could get a very observant companion who notices things about others and points them out. Kind of like an Iron Bull that's more talkative about the stuff they notice from other characters. yeah, that will probably be it, i know. we'll still get occasional insight into companions psyche through other devices, such as visiting fade, encountering spirits/demons, but probable not a constant presence like cole was. |
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Post by pessimistpanda on May 25, 2017 8:02:44 GMT
Hang on, Cole ends up in a relationship? They made a BFD about how he was too messed up in the head to bang. I remember because Nocte was butthurt about it, until he saw what Cole was gonna look like, lol.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2017 9:20:21 GMT
Hang on, Cole ends up in a relationship? They made a BFD about how he was too messed up in the head to bang. I remember because Nocte was butthurt about it, until he saw what Cole was gonna look like, lol. He ends up with Maryden, the bard. This only happens if you take the human path. You have to remember that Trespasser is two years after DAI, so if you take the human path he's had all that time to grow into himself as an actual person. He now has more control over reading people, and I believe by this point that it's more difficult for him to do so. A point is made to emphasize that they have a connection because they both have compassion and empathy for people, and can reach people (to help them) in their own way. I think it's a really nice development and makes sense(TM) the way the game portrays it. Conversely, if you take the spirit path, Maryden ends up with Krem (if Krem is around...) I think there might be a cute scene where Bull is trying to set them up? I'm not sure, as I've never seen it. The way Cole is in the main game it absolutely would be wrong to allow him to be an LI. How do you know that he's doing whatever because HE wants to, and not because it's what he thinks will "help" someone? Cole isn't really fully his own person because he takes other people's feelings into himself. |
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Post by pessimistpanda on May 25, 2017 9:28:07 GMT
Hang on, Cole ends up in a relationship? They made a BFD about how he was too messed up in the head to bang. I remember because Nocte was butthurt about it, until he saw what Cole was gonna look like, lol. He ends up with Maryden, the bard. This only happens if you take the human path. You have to remember that Trespasser is two years after DAI, so if you take the human path he's had all that time to grow into himself as an actual person. He now has more control over reading people, and I believe by this point that it's more difficult for him to do so. A point is made to emphasize that they have a connection because they both have compassion and empathy for people, and can reach people (to help them) in their own way. I think it's a really nice development and makes sense(TM) the way the game portrays it. Conversely, if you take the spirit path, Maryden ends up with Krem (if Krem is around...) I think there might be a cute scene where Bull is trying to set them up? I'm not sure, as I've never seen it. The way Cole is in the main game it absolutely would be wrong to allow him to be an LI. How do you know that he's doing whatever because HE wants to, and not because it's what he thinks will "help" someone? Cole isn't really fully his own person because he takes other people's feelings into himself. Eeeeehhhhhh. Whatever, I guess. I don't really buy that two years is enough time for him to be capable of an adult relationship, but I guess I will at some point finally have to play Trespasser and see for myself. |
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mrslothy
The Beastmaster
Elcor in the Fade
Posts: 639
Likes: 2,006
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Post by mrslothy on May 25, 2017 20:02:34 GMT
Eeeeehhhhhh. Whatever, I guess. I don't really buy that two years is enough time for him to be capable of an adult relationship, but I guess I will at some point finally have to play Trespasser and see for myself. still, it was an official explanation. i have to admit i was surprised myself at cole entering a romance, even if he was more human like. i guess it was bound to happen at some point, just didn't expect we'd see it. |
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Much love right back at ya!
