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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2017 21:00:00 GMT
My guess is they are afraid to make "the bad" character gay (or bi). They don't want to be accused of vilifying LGBT characters. See: Solas  Except this doesn't just extend to moral ambiguity. It extends to characters like Cassandra and Cora too, tbh. Nearly any time there's a risk, they apply it to the het women first and foremost. Good observation, so true. Maybe it comes down to them making straight characters as simply "characters," with all the interesting quirks and personality traits that characters should have, but when it comes to gay characters they get hung up on making A Gay Character TM |
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Post by gaycaravaggio on May 25, 2017 21:09:52 GMT
Except this doesn't just extend to moral ambiguity. It extends to characters like Cassandra and Cora too, tbh. Nearly any time there's a risk, they apply it to the het women first and foremost. Good observation, so true. Maybe it comes down to them making straight characters as simply "characters," with all the interesting quirks and personality traits that characters should have, but when it comes to gay characters they get hung up on making A Gay Character TMIt sucks because there's bi/gay female characters besides the ones written by Sheryl Chee that are a bit more complicated, like Briala and Celene. But we don't really get that kind of thing in romances. Part of me wonders if it has to do with people just having no clue about lesbian relationships and what appeals to lesbians. Take popular f/f pairings like Xena/Gabrielle and the more recent Pricefield. Those are ships that are complicated, the two could easily be depicted in so many different kinds of situations because their relationship isn't just fluff, there's angst and hurt feelings and plot-related drama there too. But I think a lot of people have this gender essentialist understanding of women that we can't have conflict with eachother unless we're either fighting over a man or just jealous in general of another woman. So that results in a lot of lesbian relationships being depicted as "hairbraidy" (the Teehee we're both girls braiding eachother's hair what a sexy fun sleepover Teehee kind of thing), with a lot of the drama being rooted in them being victims of homophobia or misogyny or both or even abuse, at times. To some extent, Bioware has gotten past this. For example, the conflict between Sera and Fem!Inquisitor has nothing to do with men or homophobia or somesuch, even if I wasn't fond of the romance myself. However, there's still a lot of romances depicted where it shows through (Merrill's f/f romance, for example, some parts of Leliana's Origins romance, and to some extent Josephine's though I think that was more in homage of the "fairytale" aspect than anything else). I'd love to see more f/f romances where there's conflict and it's obvious it wasn't written as a "f/f romance" but an interesting, dare-I-say plot relevant romance arc that happens to be f/f. |
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Post by Lee on May 26, 2017 1:09:34 GMT
A woman starting the apocalypse sounds kinda hot though, ngl.  I'd have my character defeat her and throw her in prison but still. Pretty damn hot. Why not romance and watch the world burn?  If I can sacrifice a town for love, world is just the next step  -nods- That's how I felt about Anders. I'll help him blow up more chantries if he asked me to. Hell I'd of done that anyway if it was an option. I'm pretty pissed at organized religion in general. |
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Post by hellionrex on May 26, 2017 1:52:28 GMT
Why not romance and watch the world burn? If I can sacrifice a town for love, world is just the next step -nods- That's how I felt about Anders. I'll help him blow up more chantries if he asked me to. Hell I'd of done that anyway if it was an option. I'm pretty pissed at organized religion in general. To contrast, playing the other side, I would be interested to see their take on an LGBT character that adheres to religion (in Dragon Age specifically, as Suvi fit the bill in ME). As far as I'm aware, the Chantry doesn't hold a stance on same sex relationships, and the only onus imposed is the one in which nobility is expected to continue the family line. Though, if we are going to Tevinter, it's gonna be an interesting situation, given what Gaider talked about back when he was writer. Granted, Patrick Weekes runs the show now, but I don't think he'd sweep that thing entirely under the rug. |
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Post by gaycaravaggio on May 26, 2017 1:56:32 GMT
-nods- That's how I felt about Anders. I'll help him blow up more chantries if he asked me to. Hell I'd of done that anyway if it was an option. I'm pretty pissed at organized religion in general. To contrast, playing the other side, I would be interested to see their take on an LGBT character that adheres to religion (in Dragon Age specifically, as Suvi fit the bill in ME). As far as I'm aware, the Chantry doesn't hold a stance on same sex relationships, and the only onus imposed is the one in which nobility is expected to continue the family line. Though, if we are going to Tevinter, it's gonna be an interesting situation, given what Gaider talked about back when he was writer. Granted, Patrick Weekes runs the show now, but I don't think he'd sweep that thing entirely under the rug. Eh, there was quite a few? Leliana follows Andrastrianism and is devout in her own way. Josephine presumably follows Andrastrianism due to being more traditional. Sera reveals in dialogue that she's a casual believer in Andrastrianism. Bull follows the Qun for most of Inquisition, which is a religion/lifestyle. Fenris in banter with Sebastian is revealed to be "secretly" Andrastrian but not openly so. Merrill believes in the Elven Gods (so Dalish religion). |
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Post by hellionrex on May 26, 2017 2:03:30 GMT
To contrast, playing the other side, I would be interested to see their take on an LGBT character that adheres to religion (in Dragon Age specifically, as Suvi fit the bill in ME). As far as I'm aware, the Chantry doesn't hold a stance on same sex relationships, and the only onus imposed is the one in which nobility is expected to continue the family line. Though, if we are going to Tevinter, it's gonna be an interesting situation, given what Gaider talked about back when he was writer. Granted, Patrick Weekes runs the show now, but I don't think he'd sweep that thing entirely under the rug. Eh, there was quite a few? Leliana follows Andrastrianism and is devout in her own way. Josephine presumably follows Andrastrianism due to being more traditional. Sera reveals in dialogue that she's a casual believer in Andrastrianism. Bull follows the Qun for most of Inquisition, which is a religion/lifestyle. Fenris in banter with Sebastian is revealed to be "secretly" Andrastrian but not openly so. Merrill believes in the Elven Gods (so Dalish religion). Should have clarified. I want to see more open male LGBT believer in the Chantry. I'm just thinking about my own options lmao. Wasn't thinking of women necessarily. I'm speaking purely in terms of Andrastianism, outside of the Qun or Elven religion. Would be interesting to see a m/m LI who followed the Imperial Chantry. |
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Post by gaycaravaggio on May 26, 2017 2:06:10 GMT
Eh, there was quite a few? Leliana follows Andrastrianism and is devout in her own way. Josephine presumably follows Andrastrianism due to being more traditional. Sera reveals in dialogue that she's a casual believer in Andrastrianism. Bull follows the Qun for most of Inquisition, which is a religion/lifestyle. Fenris in banter with Sebastian is revealed to be "secretly" Andrastrian but not openly so. Merrill believes in the Elven Gods (so Dalish religion). Should have clarified. I want to see more open male LGBT believer in the Chantry. I'm just thinking about my own options lmao. Wasn't thinking of women necessarily. I'm speaking purely in terms of Andrastianism, outside of the Qun or Elven religion. Would be interesting to see a m/m LI who followed the Imperial Chantry. I'm not against this, though I'm not looking forward to them using him being religious as an excuse not to give him a sex scene.  (See: Suvi) |
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Post by Lee on May 26, 2017 2:07:28 GMT
Eh, there was quite a few? Leliana follows Andrastrianism and is devout in her own way. Josephine presumably follows Andrastrianism due to being more traditional. Sera reveals in dialogue that she's a casual believer in Andrastrianism. Bull follows the Qun for most of Inquisition, which is a religion/lifestyle. Fenris in banter with Sebastian is revealed to be "secretly" Andrastrian but not openly so. Merrill believes in the Elven Gods (so Dalish religion). Should have clarified. I want to see more open male LGBT believer in the Chantry. I'm just thinking about my own options lmao. Wasn't thinking of women necessarily. I'm speaking purely in terms of Andrastianism, outside of the Qun or Elven religion. Would be interesting to see a m/m LI who followed the Imperial Chantry. Dorian believes in the Maker...and that was more then close enough for me. Not really into religion-I have a faith and set of beliefs...but organized religion is just not my bag. |
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Post by gaycaravaggio on May 26, 2017 2:09:44 GMT
Should have clarified. I want to see more open male LGBT believer in the Chantry. I'm just thinking about my own options lmao. Wasn't thinking of women necessarily. I'm speaking purely in terms of Andrastianism, outside of the Qun or Elven religion. Would be interesting to see a m/m LI who followed the Imperial Chantry. Dorian believes in the Maker...and that was more then close enough for me. Not really into religion-I have a faith and set of beliefs...but organized religion is just not my bag. Same here. I would be interested in seeing an LGBT female character who was outright anti-Chantry. (Though I guess Merrill arguably fits that?) |
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Post by Lee on May 26, 2017 2:13:42 GMT
Dorian believes in the Maker...and that was more then close enough for me. Not really into religion-I have a faith and set of beliefs...but organized religion is just not my bag. Same here. I would be interested in seeing an LGBT female character who was outright anti-Chantry. (Though I guess Merrill arguably fits that?) It's lame how pretty much all the characters have some kind of strong religious belief. I mean not everyone is obsessed with such things. I wish the trespasser revelation would at least lead the elves to question their belief system, but I suspect it will go completely ignored and they'll keep worshiping the creepy ancient elf mages. |
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Post by hellionrex on May 26, 2017 21:22:38 GMT
Should have clarified. I want to see more open male LGBT believer in the Chantry. I'm just thinking about my own options lmao. Wasn't thinking of women necessarily. I'm speaking purely in terms of Andrastianism, outside of the Qun or Elven religion. Would be interesting to see a m/m LI who followed the Imperial Chantry. I'm not against this, though I'm not looking forward to them using him being religious as an excuse not to give him a sex scene. (See: Suvi) They gave Cass one, no? |
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Post by gaycaravaggio on May 26, 2017 21:44:16 GMT
I'm not against this, though I'm not looking forward to them using him being religious as an excuse not to give him a sex scene. (See: Suvi) They gave Cass one, no? True, but she's the one hetero woman love interest. Of course they were gonna give her a sex scene. |
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Post by Lee on May 27, 2017 19:12:52 GMT
Yeah, Cass had to let the twins out-given she's the only sexual path for straight men. Josie's so disney-and it doesn't even make sense given where she's from. OH well, most people who romance her seem to like her path for reasons-so whatever I guess.  |
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2017 2:07:52 GMT
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Post by Andrew Mancer on May 28, 2017 2:28:34 GMT
I love that she mentioned Alistair and was just as disappointed as many of us that he wasn't an option for males. Take a hint, BioWare! We need our gay KISA!  |
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Post by gaycaravaggio on May 28, 2017 4:00:09 GMT
Thanks! This was a fun read. I would love to see something sci-fi/fantasy from her (but still comedic!) |
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Post by Lee on May 28, 2017 8:47:50 GMT
that's a good article thanks for sharing! I am looking forward to seeing what the new content will be for the Steam release. I really hope the scifi story will come to pass-and that she sticks with the M/M focus.  |
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Post by phantomrachie on May 29, 2017 8:04:57 GMT
Yeah, Cass had to let the twins out-given she's the only sexual path for straight men. Josie's so disney-and it doesn't even make sense given where she's from. OH well, most people who romance her seem to like her path for reasons-so whatever I guess. I really enjoyed the Josie romance because I got be Josie's KISA. I got to duel for her love and have the full Disney romance and I got to do all of that while playing as a woman. Her romance probably seems really cliche if you romance her as a man but as a woman her romance lets you do all sorts of things that woman aren't normally allowed to do in a romance. That being said She is one of only two romances for gay women in DA:I so it would've been nice for her to have a sex scene too because Sera is very marmite, but I still appreciate all the other aspects of her romance. |
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Post by Vallerie on May 29, 2017 8:27:23 GMT
Yeah, Cass had to let the twins out-given she's the only sexual path for straight men. Josie's so disney-and it doesn't even make sense given where she's from. OH well, most people who romance her seem to like her path for reasons-so whatever I guess. I really enjoyed the Josie romance because I got be Josie's KISA. I got to duel for her love and have the full Disney romance and I got to do all of that while playing as a woman. Her romance probably seems really cliche if you romance her as a man but as a woman her romance lets you do all sorts of things that woman aren't normally allowed to do in a romance. That being said She is one of only two romances for gay women in DA:I so it would've been nice for her to have a sex scene too because Sera is very marmite, but I still appreciate all the other aspects of her romance. Does Lace Harding not count?  Sure, she might have pretty much no extra romance content but...  |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2017 8:36:37 GMT
No, Harding doesn't really count. The devs don't seem to regard her as a real romance option.
However, I think his statement here is forgetting Vivienne's remarks in Trespasser, which is a shame.
Having (or not having) her as a romance in DA4 is bound to piss off someone. If they do, then the Harding-mancers in DAI will be pissed. If they don't, people who like her, and want a full dwarven romance (finally) will be pissed.
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(See: Suvi)
