|
|
Post by Rouccoco on Apr 27, 2020 15:54:41 GMT
I’ve avoided the spoiler minefield that is the internet today, but I did see complaints that these leaks confirm the game is too woke and caters to SJW, so I hard yeeted myself out of it, and am just avoiding all future mention of the game now till release. Having read the leaks, I have no idea, what they are going on about. Maybe they expected Ellie to not be gay in the game, despite, you know, the DLC, the trailers, and the truth. |
|
izut
The Beastmaster
Posts: 570 
Likes: 1,451
|
Post by izut on Apr 27, 2020 19:25:48 GMT
I've seen all the leaks and I'm not sure if I want to play this title anymore.
|
|
Joey
The Beastmaster
Pizza Emperor
Posts: 461
Likes: 2,250
|
Post by Joey on Apr 28, 2020 12:54:25 GMT
I saw every spoiler, and imo I don't see how game cater to SJWs, everything is pretty natural. Now my thoughts on the plot, so MASSIVE SPOILERS Joel dies and that's to be expected to be honest. I thought Dina is going to die first, but no.
What I heavily dislike about the plot is that we play as the person who killed Joel, Abby. Seriously, just fuck no. Yeah, Joel killed surgeon, her father in the first game, but still I can't feel sorry for her, because she killed beloved character! I like the implications of Joel's actions, but this gameplay choice (to play as Abby) is a huge mistake.
And there are conflicting leaks- that both Dina and Ellie dies (we see brutal fight where Abby break them into a pulp), some people say they live, some that only Dina dies.
If both of them dies, then fuck it. This game can't be saved. Later Abby is hunted by Ellie's friends, but I don't care, still shit way to end this game. But I think they will live:
Abby instead of finishing them off decides to leave them. IMO That's a clear indicator they're fine. This is how it usually works in the movies and games. And there's another speculation/leak about that- Ellie will hunt Abby in the next game BUT Ellie will be the villain and Abby the protagonist. Little better, because Ellie is alive... but still shit, because that means she will die anyway in the next game. And I just don't want to play as Abby. I just won't be able to like her, after all she's done. |
|
|
|
Post by Rouccoco on Apr 28, 2020 14:14:00 GMT
Now my thoughts on the plot, so MASSIVE SPOILERS Yup They're going for a mega edgy plot, because they had to know almost no one will like playing as the person, who killed Joel, and potentially maybe kills Ellie. Like, even if she doesn't, will that fight be controlled? How many people will let Ellie win, if that happens, and won't care about a game over? No matter how many orphans Abby saves, she's not going to make people turn against Ellie and/or Joel.
This also is shitty - the first AAA game with a lesbian protagonist will make you play half of the game with a different character, who maybe will then kill her. One step forward, two steps back...
But hey, at least I don't feel bad about not having a PS4 anymore. With Horizon, Journey, and Detroit being on PC, and this making me not want to play TLoU anymore, I'm good. |
|
izut
The Beastmaster
Posts: 570
Likes: 1,451
|
Post by izut on Apr 28, 2020 14:25:37 GMT
I saw every spoiler, and imo I don't see how game cater to SJWs, everything is pretty natural. Now my thoughts on the plot, so MASSIVE SPOILERS Joel dies and that's to be expected to be honest. I thought Dina is going to die first, but no.
What I heavily dislike about the plot is that we play as the person who killed Joel, Abby. Seriously, just fuck no. Yeah, Joel killed surgeon, her father in the first game, but still I can't feel sorry for her, because she killed beloved character! I like the implications of Joel's actions, but this gameplay choice (to play as Abby) is a huge mistake.
And there are conflicting leaks- that both Dina and Ellie dies (we see brutal fight where Abby break them into a pulp), some people say they live, some that only Dina dies.
If both of them dies, then fuck it. This game can't be saved. Later Abby is hunted by Ellie's friends, but I don't care, still shit way to end this game. But I think they will live:
Abby instead of finishing them off decides to leave them. IMO That's a clear indicator they're fine. This is how it usually works in the movies and games. And there's another speculation/leak about that- Ellie will hunt Abby in the next game BUT Ellie will be the villain and Abby the protagonist. Little better, because Ellie is alive... but still shit, because that means she will die anyway in the next game. And I just don't want to play as Abby. I just won't be able to like her, after all she's done. Now my thoughts on the plot, so MASSIVE SPOILERS Yup They're going for a mega edgy plot, because they had to know almost no one will like playing as the person, who killed Joel, and potentially maybe kills Ellie. Like, even if she doesn't, will that fight be controlled? How many people will let Ellie win, if that happens, and won't care about a game over? No matter how many orphans Abby saves, she's not going to make people turn against Ellie and/or Joel.
This also is shitty - the first AAA game with a lesbian protagonist will make you play half of the game with a different character, who maybe will then kill her. One step forward, two steps back...
But hey, at least I don't feel bad about not having a PS4 anymore. With Horizon, Journey, and Detroit being on PC, and this making me not want to play TLoU anymore, I'm good. I'm pissed at what they did to Ellie as a character. They pretty much make her a villain here and will force us to play as Joel's killer for half of the game that was supposed to be about Ellie and Joel. I hate it, absolutely hate it. Also, Dina being pregnant? Why is there always need to be a pregnant queer character... And if they kill Ellie at the very end... No. I just don't support it. Who thought it'd be such a good idea? |
|
|
|
Post by Rouccoco on Apr 28, 2020 18:00:05 GMT
I'm pissed at what they did to Ellie as a character. I think they took the criticism about Nathan UnchartedDrake being a serial killer a bit too much to heart and ran with it. We get it, brutal post-apocalyptic world, no one's really good. Still don't care about Abby.
Suddenly Troy Baker asking people to approach the game with an open mind makes much more sense. |
|
izut
The Beastmaster
Posts: 570
Likes: 1,451
|
Post by izut on Apr 28, 2020 18:43:52 GMT
I'm pissed at what they did to Ellie as a character. I think they took the criticism about Nathan UnchartedDrake being a serial killer a bit too much to heart and ran with it. We get it, brutal post-apocalyptic world, no one's really good. Still don't care about Abby.
Suddenly Troy Baker asking people to approach the game with an open mind makes much more sense. Yeah, I had an open mind... really open mind. But ND clearly had crossed a line here. This isn't what you do to beloved characters and you don't sell lies to your fandbase. "A story about Ellie and Joel". Gimmie a break. And I was very excited for this game. Ellie is, after all, first lesbian protagonist ever made, I adore her and I adore Dina and I really wanted to see them together. So I was like - this has to be good, this is Naughty Dog we're talking about. I'm afraid I might've been extremely wrong this time. I'm not saying I won't keep my eye on this game, because I will. I want to see if it's actually worth it, like they say it is. But I'm not having too much of a hope anymore and they killed my vibes. I'm not buying it though. At least not until I see the gameplay and judge the whole thing. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2020 21:45:52 GMT
Just to clarify I think the complaints about the game being too woke and SJW-y I saw being made we’re in regards to Abby, and overall making incredibly disgusting transphobic and sexist comments about her.
Y’know the usual rhetoric to be expected from anyone who complains about anything being woke or SJW in the same sentence.
I think a lot of the angry and phobic/sexist comments and general rage is because of having to play as Abby, who kills Joel, a beloved character by most fans who like the franchise anyway, but I think particularly admired and liked by a specific group of fans who like Joel for the various reasons they didn’t like the idea of Ellie and Abby as protags. Joel is a violent, straight, white male who kicks the shit out of a bunch of people in the first game. So him being killed by Abby seemed to be the straw that broke the camel’s back for a lot of these toxic fans whose complaints I first saw before I saw and read any spoilers.
My own take is just upset at what they are doing to Ellie and Dina.
The Bury Your Gays in full force.
I’m not upset at Joel dying, I was expecting it from the very first trailer. But the manner in which Naughty Dog is handling this is similar to how D&D dis Season 8 of GoT to me. Going in the exact opposite direction of what folks expect to be edgy or different or “subversive”. It’s ultimately just upset everyone for a variety of different reasons.
Also in regards to the leak, there has to be a better more constructive way at expressing upset and frustration at working conditions. I hate the idea of crunch and everything else, but doing this as a means of getting back also hurts all the employees still there who now have even more on their plate. |
|
|
|
Post by Scottphoto on Apr 29, 2020 7:20:09 GMT
I saw the leaks and yikes, it will be very interesting to see how this all unfolds when is finally out. Didn’t really like personally what Neil did to Uncharted 4, trying to make a really deep thinking into Nate’s character with a gloomy past, that ultimately went nowhere, while the best moments of the game where the ones they kept from Amy Hennig’s work. Meanwhile Lost Legacy made by a different team hit all the balanced notes just right thankfully! Its a shame though I think last of us 1 was pretty great so I get why they chose him, even though I wasn’t a fan of the ending: And while I do like that it tackles that brutal ending this second game, it does not feel the way to go about it? I was expecting more of Ellie seperate from Joe because of it so she can make her own decisions. And maybe Ellie helps this new character instead of somehow ending up on Ellie being bad? Maybe theres more to it than meets the eye but I just don’t really get much the point of it either. It feels like trying to do too much that doesn’t wrap up well together. I wasn’t a fan of the cult leak either mostly because im not a fan of making the gay lead have to face homophobia on a game, im kinda trying to escape that by playing games lol. I do wonder if this going to lead them to stop on these kind of games and think of something else in the future. |
|
izut
The Beastmaster
Posts: 570
Likes: 1,451
|
Post by izut on Apr 29, 2020 7:38:33 GMT
I saw the leaks and yikes, it will be very interesting to see how this all unfolds when is finally out. Didn’t really like personally what Neil did to Uncharted 4, trying to make a really deep thinking into Nate’s character with a gloomy past, that ultimately went nowhere, while the best moments of the game where the ones they kept from Amy Hennig’s work. Meanwhile Lost Legacy made by a different team hit all the balanced notes just right thankfully! Its a shame though I think last of us 1 was pretty great so I get why they chose him, even though I wasn’t a fan of the ending: And while I do like that it tackles that brutal ending this second game, it does not feel the way to go about it? I was expecting more of Ellie seperate from Joe because of it so she can make her own decisions. And maybe Ellie helps this new character instead of somehow ending up on Ellie being bad? Maybe theres more to it than meets the eye but I just don’t really get much the point of it either. It feels like trying to do too much that doesn’t wrap up well together. I wasn’t a fan of the cult leak either mostly because im not a fan of making the gay lead have to face homophobia on a game, im kinda trying to escape that by playing games lol. I do wonder if this going to lead them to stop on these kind of games and think of something else in the future. Um, nope. I don't think you've seen all of them. Ellie is hunting Abby, literally. Even after Abby spares her after being talked down by Lev. Even after months of healing and Dina giving birth. She leaves her family around the end of the game to hunt Abby again because revenge is clearly more important to her than anything else. This is not Ellie we know and love.
As for Abby we're not only forced to play as her - a girl who beats Joel with a golf club until he dies, begging her to stop btw. We're also forced to beat Ellie, badly.
Abby is so violent that she also was happy to kill a pregnant girl. If Lev didn't stop her, she'd gladly kill Dina in front of Ellie... The moment she learned Dina is pregnant she was all "good" and put a knife to her throat ready to cut but thankfully Lev stopped her and she gave up on killing anyone. How am I supposed like her enough to play as her? I already hate her. And hate the fact that she's still the one that kills only Joel while Ellie goes on a killing spree to get her, fails ending up with a broken arm, beaten half to death, starts a family while healing and still leaves that family to hunt the girl again because she needs to finish what she started. It all look like a terrible fanfiction garbage and pretty much screams she's gonna die to end the cycle of violence because she's the one asking over and over again for this violence to happen after Joel is killed in front of her. |
|
|
|
Post by Scottphoto on Apr 29, 2020 7:52:46 GMT
I saw the leaks and yikes, it will be very interesting to see how this all unfolds when is finally out. Didn’t really like personally what Neil did to Uncharted 4, trying to make a really deep thinking into Nate’s character with a gloomy past, that ultimately went nowhere, while the best moments of the game where the ones they kept from Amy Hennig’s work. Meanwhile Lost Legacy made by a different team hit all the balanced notes just right thankfully! Its a shame though I think last of us 1 was pretty great so I get why they chose him, even though I wasn’t a fan of the ending: And while I do like that it tackles that brutal ending this second game, it does not feel the way to go about it? I was expecting more of Ellie seperate from Joe because of it so she can make her own decisions. And maybe Ellie helps this new character instead of somehow ending up on Ellie being bad? Maybe theres more to it than meets the eye but I just don’t really get much the point of it either. It feels like trying to do too much that doesn’t wrap up well together. I wasn’t a fan of the cult leak either mostly because im not a fan of making the gay lead have to face homophobia on a game, im kinda trying to escape that by playing games lol. I do wonder if this going to lead them to stop on these kind of games and think of something else in the future. Um, nope. I don't think you've seen all of them. Ellie is hunting Abby, literally. Even after Abby spares her after being talked down by Lev. Even after months of healing and Dina giving birth. She leaves her family around the end of the game to hunt Abby again because revenge is clearly more important to her than anything else. This is not Ellie we know and love.
As for Abby we're not only forced to play as her - a girl who beats Joel with a golf club until he dies, begging her to stop btw. We're also forced to beat Ellie, badly.
Abby is so violent that she also was happy to kill a pregnant girl. If Lev didn't stop her, she'd gladly kill Dina in front of Ellie... The moment she learned Dina is pregnant she was all "good" and put a knife to her throat ready to cut but thankfully Lev stopped her and she gave up on killing anyone. How am I supposed like her enough to play as her? I already hate her. And hate the fact that she's still the one that kills only Joel while Ellie goes on a killing spree to get her, fails ending up with a broken arm, beaten half to death, starts a family while healing and still leaves that family to hunt the girl again because she needs to finish what she started. It all look like a terrible fanfiction garbage and pretty much screams she's gonna die to end the cycle of violence because she's the one asking over and over again for this violence to happen after Joel is killed in front of her. Wow ok I had not seen all that in very detail the last parts, I just only managed to catch some clips, the rest was just reactions from people but it felt like a few people doing interpretations. that really sucks then, if Abby had any actual redeeming qualities to play as her would be fine, but she clearly doesn’t. And making you hit your game protagonist is awful, even more so the character they celebrate as gay? I also feel like I don’t get the story of this anymore focusing so much on violence of back and forth, and almost nothing really about its apocalyptic setting. Like you can pretty much have this whole violence nonsense in whichever setting. Oh well definitely a hard pass for me, not really interested to interact or see this awful moments. This game would really benefit from a choice system cuz this feels like somewhat just picked all renegade for the heck of it lol. I really hope this doesn’t get ravin reviews just cuz “oooohh bold!” |
|
izut
The Beastmaster
Posts: 570
Likes: 1,451
|
Post by izut on Apr 29, 2020 8:01:17 GMT
Um, nope. I don't think you've seen all of them. Ellie is hunting Abby, literally. Even after Abby spares her after being talked down by Lev. Even after months of healing and Dina giving birth. She leaves her family around the end of the game to hunt Abby again because revenge is clearly more important to her than anything else. This is not Ellie we know and love.
As for Abby we're not only forced to play as her - a girl who beats Joel with a golf club until he dies, begging her to stop btw. We're also forced to beat Ellie, badly.
Abby is so violent that she also was happy to kill a pregnant girl. If Lev didn't stop her, she'd gladly kill Dina in front of Ellie... The moment she learned Dina is pregnant she was all "good" and put a knife to her throat ready to cut but thankfully Lev stopped her and she gave up on killing anyone. How am I supposed like her enough to play as her? I already hate her. And hate the fact that she's still the one that kills only Joel while Ellie goes on a killing spree to get her, fails ending up with a broken arm, beaten half to death, starts a family while healing and still leaves that family to hunt the girl again because she needs to finish what she started. It all look like a terrible fanfiction garbage and pretty much screams she's gonna die to end the cycle of violence because she's the one asking over and over again for this violence to happen after Joel is killed in front of her. Wow ok I had not seen all that in very detail the last parts, I just only managed to catch some clips, the rest was just reactions from people but it felt like a few people doing interpretations. that really sucks then, if Abby had any actual redeeming qualities to play as her would be fine, but she clearly doesn’t. And making you hit your game protagonist is awful, even more so the character they celebrate as gay? I also feel like I don’t get the story of this anymore focusing so much on violence of back and forth, and almost nothing really about its apocalyptic setting. Like you can pretty much have this whole violence nonsense in whichever setting. Oh well definitely a hard pass for me, not really interested to interact or see this awful moments. This game would really benefit from a choice system cuz this feels like somewhat just picked all renegade for the heck of it lol. I really hope this doesn’t get ravin reviews just cuz “oooohh bold!” Forgot to mention... when they fight, Dina tries to save Ellie from being killed. She ends up shot with an arrow, beaten to unconsciousness by repeatedly having her head smashed face first to the floor and then Abby wants to slit her throat while Ellie lies on the floor beaten half to death, with a broken arm, begging her to stop and she's the one telling her Dina is pregnant. Then Abby says "good" and does a specific move that'd slit Dina's throat but Lev, who shot Dina with an arrow, stops her. There's so much blood...
There's nothing about homophobic cult in the leaks. That's made up. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2020 9:32:17 GMT
This goes back to how I originally felt when I first heard there was going to be a Last of Us 1 sequel.
The first game is for me as close as you can get to masterpiece tier, with its DLC Left Behind being one of my favourite DLCs of all time, and set the bar high for me when it comes to DLCs.
The ending of the first game was incredibly depressing and impactful in a good way, in that, I couldn’t stop thinking about the game long after I finished playing it. Left Behind helped reinforce my love for Ellie, this story, and the incredible journey she goes through.
My bitter heart doesn’t fully accept Riley’s fate 100%, because it’s another case of BYG, but Left Behind at least doesn’t show it, instead focuses on showcasing their relationship, and Ellie’s budding sexuality and feelings.
It’s beautiful and a truly rare piece of gaming that doesn’t have an equal to it or the main game it’s a piece of supplementary content to.
So after all that I kept thinking how in the hell would they begin to go about following that?
For starters I like the open ended ness of the ending. The not knowing. The vagueness of whether Ellie “knows” or not.
It felt like the natural conclusion. This revelation from Joel that could or could not shatter Ellie’s entire worldview and outlook on Joel as a person and protector and friend.
To follow it up with a sequel was always going to be a monumental task I feel, and a big part of me was in a way satisfied with how the first game wrapped up, and to me it was never a game begging for a sequel or follow up or continuation. The only part of me that wanted to maybe see more was mainly to see more from Ellie, who after Left Behind, had fully had her primed as possibly the first ever lesbian protagonist of a video game.
But then there was my fear that Naughty Dog was never going to fully be able to handle this situation well, and with more info about the game having come out over the past few months, my fears kinda weren’t unwarranted.
This sequel I won’t play, for the simple reason that I feel it’s going to ruin the legacy of the first game, and in its and it’s writers desire to continue this weird trend of being subversive and dissonant in their stories, are ultimately just ruining characters, ruining the love and joy fans have in their worlds and creations, and just alienate fans from ever being excited about future stories they have to tell.
|
|
izut
The Beastmaster
Posts: 570
Likes: 1,451
|
Post by izut on Apr 30, 2020 18:02:20 GMT
More leaks are coming out every day and they confirm all of my fears so far. Which is not good.
|
|
izut
The Beastmaster
Posts: 570
Likes: 1,451
|
Post by izut on May 6, 2020 18:14:48 GMT
So many lies here... So many misdirections... Gosh, i can feel it ending up badly.
|
|
izut
The Beastmaster
Posts: 570
Likes: 1,451
|
Post by izut on Jun 25, 2020 21:37:26 GMT
I HATE WHAT THEY DID WITH THIS GAME! They literally made sure the straight monster (Abby) gets a happy ending when a lesbian loses everything and everyone...
Abby the monster, the beast, he whatever you want to call her, is the least empathetic character I've seen for a long time in the media. She feels no remorse over any death she delivers, she doesn't give one single crap about killing her people without any valid reason, she's top killer in her faction (it's said she's Isaac's top killer), she's fine with all kinds of cruelty (killing children included), she suceeds with her revenge AND she still finds someone to live for (Lev). She also ends up finding those Fireflies.
Ellie on the other hand is seen not enjoying the killing. Most of her kills are self defence and they leave her in shock. She loses:
her father figure
her connection to him (can't play a guitar anymore due to losing her fingers)
her connection to her mom (knife)
her wife
her son
her home
All she gets is nightmares, depression, PTSD and survivor guilt.
Thanks, Neil. That really was progressive. Another tropy ending for a very first lesbian protagonist in AAA. What a clusterfucking missed opporturnity...
Oh, and lose all the hope for a DLC. Neil said there will be no DLC.
|
|
Aliaspig
The Beastmaster
boop
Posts: 614
Likes: 3,120
|
Post by Aliaspig on Jul 22, 2020 11:29:18 GMT
I HATE WHAT THEY DID WITH THIS GAME! They literally made sure the straight monster (Abby) gets a happy ending when a lesbian loses everything and everyone...
Abby the monster, the beast, he whatever you want to call her, is the least empathetic character I've seen for a long time in the media. She feels no remorse over any death she delivers, she doesn't give one single crap about killing her people without any valid reason, she's top killer in her faction (it's said she's Isaac's top killer), she's fine with all kinds of cruelty (killing children included), she suceeds with her revenge AND she still finds someone to live for (Lev). She also ends up finding those Fireflies.
Ellie on the other hand is seen not enjoying the killing. Most of her kills are self defence and they leave her in shock. She loses:
her father figure
her connection to him (can't play a guitar anymore due to losing her fingers)
her connection to her mom (knife)
her wife
her son
her home
All she gets is nightmares, depression, PTSD and survivor guilt.
Thanks, Neil. That really was progressive. Another tropy ending for a very first lesbian protagonist in AAA. What a clusterfucking missed opporturnity...
Oh, and lose all the hope for a DLC. Neil said there will be no DLC.
This was not my takeaway at all. |
|
Much love right back at ya!
