mrslothy
The Beastmaster
Elcor in the Fade
Posts: 639 
Likes: 2,006
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Post by mrslothy on Feb 14, 2021 13:36:03 GMT
I thought we should have a separate thread for this game. WOTR is a second game in the pathfinder universe by owlcat studios. It has multiple romance options, gay, bi and hetero (no lesbian only option) is in the beta stage atm (early access).
Kickstarter page with lots of updates:
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Some of my thoughts from kingmaker thread: Another thing that strikes me as interesting is the style of writing characters and plot in pathfinder games. They are very reminiscent of bg2 games. Now i love bg2 but because it has special meaning for me (nostalgia, played it as a teenage boy). Looking at bg2 objectively, high level high fantasy is ridiculous, morality is not handled with finesse, character motivation is all over the place... a lot to be desired. Not sure how i would react if I played it today for the first time. In that sense dragon age really is an upgrade, even if it took a while to reach a good level of world building. And now there is this game, pathfinder, that is actually a successor to bg games, in more ways than one. With all the good and bad things that entails. I find its more difficult to get into new games that have this level of ridiculous fantasy now, because im a different person than who i was when i played bg games. The writing seems to rely on tropes and exaggerated ideas of alignment a lot, which could escalate to ridiculous levels in high level play/campaign. Bg2 had this problem as well, while bg1 and kingmaker managed to have it somewhat toned down. And wotr seems to really be closer to bg2 from what i see. I'm willing to give some benefit of doubt and suspend my disbelief, supposing owlcat will manage to insert some finesse into their writing. But im seeing a lot of reliance on tropes, and paired with over the top campaign and pathfinder lore, im not convinced they can execute them well enough for them to function without any creative twist. Writing this shows im engaged and hopeful for what this game can be i guess, a real crpg that can spark a sense of wonder and immersion. Just hoping it wont dive into a caricature too much. |
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mrslothy
The Beastmaster
Elcor in the Fade
Posts: 639
Likes: 2,006
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Post by mrslothy on Feb 14, 2021 13:41:52 GMT
Here is a valentine update with the list of romanceable companions and their gender preferences from devs themselves 
Seems like we're getting a gay KISA/CISA, so that's nice. Straight men have most choices again, but everybody has some options, which is great IMO. Also, make your voices heard on devs discord! Lets make sure our male gay and bi options get the same attention |
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Post by farferello on Feb 14, 2021 18:00:09 GMT
Not surprising that straight dudes get the most options once again:
M/F - Camellia, Wenduag, Arueshalae, Queen Galfrey
F/M - Daeran, Lann
F/F - Wenduag, Arueshalae, Queen Galfrey
M/M - Daeran, Sosiel
Three were kickstarter goals - Camellia, Daeran, and Queen Galfrey - but they probably should have added (bi) Woljif also to at least make m/m and f/m a little more equal to the others. I'm just hoping the romances will have equal content. From what I've read about Daeran's it's pretty nice, same with Sosiel though I've seen less info.
Edit: Also looks like there's at least one secret 'romance.'
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Post by Lee on Feb 15, 2021 3:07:24 GMT
It's pretty annoying that there's no exclusively lesbian romance option when everyone else got an exclusive romance. I mean there's 3 f/f so it's hard to knock the option count, but still, it really stands out that the male players get all 3 of their options too.
I hope the game will be good. I don't think I'll ever play the first game, but I could get into the second perhaps.
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Post by farferello on Feb 15, 2021 5:31:35 GMT
It's definitely a shame there's no exclusive f/f option. The choices would be a little more 'even' had the kickstarter goals not been reached but that still would have left m/m, and f/m with only one option compared to the rest had they not been met. I'm just hoping if they add any dlc with romances this time, it will be more even than what Kingmaker had and won't be gender locked. Woljif romance when. I'm just hoping Sosiel will have good content as the gay romance option. He seems very sweet and total cinnamon roll which is great. But the fact he can be abused in his romance if you go evil/Demon mythic, is pretty skeevy, it just comes straight off as battered housewife. |
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mrslothy
The Beastmaster
Elcor in the Fade
Posts: 639
Likes: 2,006
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Post by mrslothy on Feb 15, 2021 11:14:35 GMT
Agreed, on all accounts. I hope the evil version of Sosiel romance, as problematic as it is, doesn't take too much of the development time from the normal one. I wonder if normal version will also have some kind of tension and conflict or if everything goes smooth and that's it.
To be fair, the game seems to support A LOT of evil choices and it seems you can be a total dick to evry companion, not just Sosiel.
In any case, I have to give at least some props to owlcat for making a gay KISA, good aligned at that. The game is yet to be released and the details of how it's handled are yet to be seen, but it's a good step forward and they represent a lot of queer characters like a normal part of the fantasy world.
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Post by Lee on Feb 15, 2021 11:35:28 GMT
The Good and evil aspects of rpgs are always interesting, but despite my earlier takes of trying both routes-lately, I find the evil playthroughs don't appeal to me anymore.
I also am pleased they have a Kisa (or CISA). But I am waiting to see the results first before I sing their praises. I'm cautiously optimistic though.
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Post by disgustednoise on Feb 15, 2021 12:41:14 GMT
I know we usually focus on the trope dependency if who they make straight and who they make queer when it comes to male romances, but ugh game developers are just as bad about female romances and making the same archetype straight over and over again. Camellia immediately jumped out to me as a character I would like from her bio and what a surprise, she's the only straight one.
Let the ladies woo the ice queen for once!
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Post by farferello on Feb 15, 2021 14:13:38 GMT
I know we usually focus on the trope dependency if who they make straight and who they make queer when it comes to male romances, but ugh game developers are just as bad about female romances and making the same archetype straight over and over again. Camellia immediately jumped out to me as a character I would like from her bio and what a surprise, she's the only straight one. Let the ladies woo the ice queen for once! Her Bio does sound nice but oh boy does it hide a lot.  It's nice that some tropes haven't been followed as much as they usually are. Sosiel seems like a sweet guy, Daeran does follow the depraved bi with a hidden romantic side and then you have Lann who seems pretty nice. The companions do all seem to have multiple layers to them which is certainly nice however. |
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mrslothy
The Beastmaster
Elcor in the Fade
Posts: 639
Likes: 2,006
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Post by mrslothy on Feb 15, 2021 14:51:10 GMT
I know we usually focus on the trope dependency if who they make straight and who they make queer when it comes to male romances, but ugh game developers are just as bad about female romances and making the same archetype straight over and over again. Camellia immediately jumped out to me as a character I would like from her bio and what a surprise, she's the only straight one. Let the ladies woo the ice queen for once! oh yes, i'm quite sure you've dodged the bullet on that one O.o it depends what full romance will look like, but for now looks are deceiving for sure. I agree with lee, i have troubles playing evil. At most, I can be neutral pragmatic with a cynical streak. Maybe with some pettiness thrown in. But the kind of shit you seem to be able to do in WOTR is something I appreciate as an option, but can't really see ever playing as an invested playthrough.
I also agree the excitement should probably be contained until the release (I'm failing in that regard tho). However, judging from Kingmaker, we should get quite old fashioned and in a lot of regards trope-y experience, in line with bg2 for example. Obviously, there will be a few modern sensibilities (thanks to paizo too) mechanically and narratively, but in general, we shouldn't expect anything revolutionary or experimental.
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Post by farferello on Mar 6, 2021 19:35:58 GMT
Mythic Alignment is currently unrestricted whilst they test things in Beta but I was able to find an alignment list for the Mythic options before that was changed. Whether it'll be altered on full release is anyone's guess but might help people to plan things out for their character.  The other three Mythics aren't currently in it, but you can go Legend from any prior Mythic I think. Swarm will likely be any Evil, and Gold Dragon will likely be Lawful/Good. And a bigger spoiler about Mythic options. There's another secret Mythic found through datamining. Seems accessible only via two other Mythic options. |
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Post by farferello on May 7, 2021 18:26:01 GMT
I'm excited. I already know what character I'll be playing first and it shall be glorious.  |
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Post by mediocreogre on Jul 18, 2021 2:02:34 GMT
Kinda sad there’s no Holy Vindicator class but Angelfire Apostle Cleric are okay but I don’t like lawful so no pally for me and don’t like channel positive energy, which I believe is all angelfire can use, as much as negative. Might have to do Magus or Flame Warden Ranger. Maybe War Priest but they aren’t that fun.
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Post by farferello on Jul 28, 2021 17:41:50 GMT
Considering the cost, I definitely lucked out in paying $33 for the digital download back in January.
Hopefully this one won't just have waifu's added in the dlc for romance because I still roll my eyes over the Tiefling twins in Kingmaker.
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mrslothy
The Beastmaster
Elcor in the Fade
Posts: 639
Likes: 2,006
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Post by mrslothy on Sept 7, 2021 17:36:33 GMT
agreed, preorder seems worthwhile now, but even so i wouldnt mind paying the full price to support the game, it seems very promising so far only played a short while. I think i will wait a bit for them to fix the bugs a bit more and then do a full playthrough, one romancing sosiel and one romancing daeran. btw, sosiel seems to be a gay kisa that this forum was longing for for a really long time.
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Post by farferello on Sept 8, 2021 4:08:23 GMT
I'm about half way through the game now, maybe more. I've lost all meaning of time as I've been stuck in one area for nine hours because of an annoying mechanic they designed the map with. About half the time has been me getting lost. That said, aside from the bugs (one of which was almost game breaking and the other I've had to solve with cheat engine so I don't end up with a game over) I've been enjoying it. Most of the companions are great, and the Mythic path I choose went from zany 'I'm just a lil shitposter-meme maker-fun haver' to 'things got dark, really, really fast.' And it's great.  I can definitely see Sosiel, and Daeran having some good stuff to their romances and I plan to eventually do them - but after I finish this character I might wait a bit for patches, because the bugs can be pretty bad. Also psa: Don't build training grounds currently once you get to Kingdom build mode. They are broken and will have your Army doing 10% damage instead of 110% |
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Post by mediocreogre on Nov 17, 2021 1:21:38 GMT
This isn’t really about this game, but Paizo (the company behind Pathfinder who licensed the rights of this IP to Owlcat for these games) is currently embroiled in two controversies, the first is a unionization push (which is being finalized and the Paizo Union will be the first union in TT RPGs) and the second is a series of allegations against various men at powerful positions in the company.
Hopefully Paizo can eject the creeps from the company because even though Owlcat never really captured all of it, Paizo has written much better LGBTQ content in their adventure paths for both Pathfinder and Starfinder (D&D has largely relegated all lgbtq characters to obscure side characters, thus far while Paizo has made their iconics, main characters, and entire species lgbtq. They even have a mechanic for easily changing a characters gender, should they choose while D&D that’s home brewed).
Also the unionization of their workers is a big deal, but between the allegations and 2nd Edition rules for both Pathfinder, and Starfinder, being unpopular still like over a year into them, it’s kinda making me nervous they’ll crump, instead of getting better. Fuck those creeps for potentially ruining something good and for what they did to their employees/peers.
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Post by Lee on Nov 19, 2021 9:38:20 GMT
So how did the Kisa romance pan out? I watched a little of it on youtube- and what I saw was just okay. Another romance where there are no animations (expected) and a fairly shallow amount of content (maybe). Yet, it did at least seem more romantic than I expected. Though I only watched the climax really.  Is the game fun enough to make it worthwhile? |
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Post by farferello on Nov 19, 2021 16:41:53 GMT
So how did the Kisa romance pan out? I watched a little of it on youtube- and what I saw was just okay. Another romance where there are no animations (expected) and a fairly shallow amount of content (maybe). Yet, it did at least seem more romantic than I expected. Though I only watched the climax really.  Is the game fun enough to make it worthwhile? His romance is sweet and a little slow burn. There's definitely... less content in a sense compared to Daeran's, but most Daeran's stuff is fluff and he spends the majority of the romance being all 'it's not like I like you or anything' whilst Sosiel is very much into it from the get go, heart is definitely on his sleeve. Daeran's mass wooing of you kinda makes sense given his backstory and the ticking timebomb in his head. He's more open/heavy handed with his flirtation but doesn't open up to you until riiiight near the end. Sosiel's is sweet. It's clear early on he likes you, his flirts and romance progression are quite adorable. He gives me Alistair vibes honestly, kinda awkward and new to it, tries to woo you in his own way (less bling-bling flashy like Daeran and more heartfelt tender things Sosiel has put a lot of effort into. Unlike Daeran, it's more a slowburn when it comes to bedding him but makes sense and it's very charming when you reach that point.
A lot of his personal character story is based around his brother, but it's not bad and his brother does approve of you, and tells you to take care of him. I also found Sosiel's romance ending slide 1000x more romantic and giving an impact. I don't want to give too many spoilers but it's soooo good.
I will however say that I'm still uncomfortable they gave Demon characters an option to buck break him and turn the romance abusive because from the snippets I saw from beta it's... deeply offputting and pretty gross - but those are options you take and not something that is forced to happen, as I romanced him on a non evil Demon, and the romance was adorably sweet. So despite that blerghness you can avoid that side of it.
I think Daeran feels like he has more just because his character stuff is more related to him personally whilst a lot of Sosiel's is down to his brother, but it still works, and his brother is a deeply traumatized man who needs lots of care and love himself, so it makes sense a lot of his story is about him, but it's not overwhelmingly so. All in all, I think you will enjoy it. Definitely do it first, I made the mistake of doing Daeran's first and the flashiness of his wooing was definitely... something I missed a little in Sosiel's. However, both options are still far superior compared to Lann. I've heard so many unfortunate things about his romance and general lack of content, so straight ladies are super lucky Daeran was added. (I will however modmance him on my Sorcerer at some point though.) |
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Post by Lee on Nov 19, 2021 18:54:39 GMT
Thanks for all the info farferello! I'll hopefully pick it up when it releases for ps4 (wish it was getting a current-gen release as well, but apparently not). |
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