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Post by toomanyclouds on Jun 3, 2017 21:11:53 GMT
Yeah, I agree, the Circles don't work as a system. Tevinter works, sort of, in the sense that it prevails whereas the Circle system seems constantly on the brink of collapse anyway. They couldn't hold their Imperium, but they still stand relatively strong. However, Tevinter is a hive of injustice, slavery and oppression, just in the other direction. I just don't know what system would work on a larger scale and not treat someone unfairly. I mean, peace and tolerance and general understanding out of the kindness of everyone's hearts, but... that takes optimism. I think the general gist is, mages are not bad because they're mages, which is what most people in South Thedas seem to believe. Mages are bad because they're people and quite a lot of people suck or do stupid things out of fear, naivety, righteous anger, etc., and people who have a lot of power have the opportunity to suck and do stupid things on previously unthought levels. Corypheus and Solas are prime examples of this. As far as we know, the most catastrophic events in the history of Thedas are largely caused by magic (except for the Blights because that they are a punishment against Corypheus and pals is only Chantry doctrine, not proven; however, Corypheus and the other mages certainly messed up something, even if it wasn't God). That's just because magic is the most powerful force on Thedas and by all rights its wielders will be the most powerful people, which could turn out unfortunate for everyone else. But then what's wrong with Anders? The Circle system is wrong. The Chantry's wrong about it, and guilty in a 1000 years sin. Anders was right. Just because he did one thing that inadvertendly caused some good things in its wake doesn't make him a better person. Anders is a murderer and a terrorist. Like all terrorists, he wanted to make the world better. But did he? Not himself. He destroyed something. Shook something loose. In my opinion, it was actually unnecessary and just upped the body count because Meredith was always gonna go crazy and make Orsino go full blood magic in response, which means the conflict would always have escalated anyway. But in the end, Hawke ended the fight in Kirkwall. Aveline and Varric kept Kirkwall standing afterwards. The Inquisitor cleaned up the mess Anders made. There was a big, big chance that all that Anders caused may have been a years-long bloody civil war at the end of which another half-solution stood; or, as we have seen, the complete take-over of Thedas by a crazy Old God. Anders methods seem sensible because it turned out okay, but that was luck, and writers plotting, and another main character stepping in. Anders plan could just as easily have turned out to end with every mage in Southern Thedas being made Tranquil from the moment of their discovery from now on. Yes, sometimes violence is necessary, you can't always change things peacefully, but I think Anders way of doing it was idiotic and dangerous. Agreeing that a system may have to be overthrown by force doesn't mean I agree that random buildings should be blown up. That in itself solved diddly-squat. Raining a church down on a city full of people (in which live children, refugees, elves, prostitutes, beggars, the sort that don't even have the power to change the system if they wanted to) only seems like a good idea because we agree with Anders in this case. What if the Templars blow up the Enchanter's College next because they think that's a good way to restore a safer way of life by forcing a conflict? Is this the way politics will be conducted in Thedas from now? Is this truly productive? EDIT: I also think that's my last post on the topic, lol. I've argued this too many times for too many years. I understand in some way why people like Anders, he is a compelling character; but my opinion on him is wrought to deeply into my own moral and political believes that it could be changed in a discussion over vidya games on the internet, so I guess it really doesn't make sense for me to still argue about it. |
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Post by Vallerie on Jun 3, 2017 21:13:28 GMT
But then what's wrong with Anders?
The Circle system is wrong.
The Chantry's wrong about it, and guilty in a 1000 years sin.
Anders was right. Just because he did one thing that inadvertendly caused some good things in its wake doesn't make him a better person. Anders is a murderer and a terrorist. Like all terrorists, he wanted to make the world better. But did he? Not himself. He destroyed something. Shook something loose. In my opinion, it was actually unnecessary and just upped the body count because Meredith was always gonna go crazy and make Orsino go full blood magic in response, which means the conflict would always have escalated anyway.
But in the end, Hawke ended the fight in Kirkwall. Aveline and Varric kept Kirkwall standing afterwards. The Inquisitor cleaned up the mess Anders made. There was a big, big chance that all that Anders caused may have been a years-long bloody civil war at the end of which another half-solution stood; or, as we have seen, the complete take-over of Thedas by a crazy Old God. Anders methods seem sensible because it turned out okay, but that was luck, and writers plotting, and another main character stepping in. Anders plan could just as easily have turned out to end with every mage in Southern Thedas being made Tranquil from the moment of their discovery from now on. Yes, sometimes violence is necessary, you can't always change things peacefully, but I think Anders way of doing was idiotic and dangerous. Agreeing that a system may have to be overthrown by force doesn't mean I agree that random building should be blown up. That in itself solved diddly-squat.
Raining a church down on a city full of people (in which live children, refugees, elves, prostitutes, beggars, the sort that don't even have the power to change the system if they wanted to) only seems like a good idea because we agree with Anders in this case. What if the Templars blow up the Enchanter's College next because they think that's a good way to restore a safer way of life by forcing a conflict? Is this the way politics will be conducted in Thedas from now? Is this truly productive? Thank you for saying what I was trying to say. You just said it in much better way  Yeah, I agree, the Circles don't work as a system. Tevinter works, sort of, in the sense that it prevails whereas the Circle system seems constantly on the brink of collapse anyway. They couldn't hold their Imperium, but they still stand relatively strong. However, Tevinter is a hive of injustice, slavery and oppression, just in the other direction. I just don't know what system would work on a larger scale and not treat someone unfairly. I mean, peace and tolerance and general understanding out of the kindness of everyone's hearts, but... that takes optimism. I think the general gist is, mages are not bad because they're mages, which is what most people in South Thedas seem to believe. Mages are bad because they're people and quite a lot of people suck or do stupid things out of fear, naivety, righteous anger, etc., and people who have a lot of power have the opportunity to suck and do stupid things on previously unthought levels. Corypheus and Solas are prime examples of this. As far as we know, the most catastrophic events in the history of Thedas are largely caused by magic (except for the Blights because that they are a punishment against Corypheus and pals is only Chantry doctrine, not proven; however, Corypheus and the other mages certainly messed up something, even if it wasn't God). That's just because magic is the most powerful force on Thedas and by all rights its wielders will be the most powerful people, which could turn out unfortunate for everyone else. But then what's wrong with Anders? The Circle system is wrong. The Chantry's wrong about it, and guilty in a 1000 years sin. Anders was right. Right idea. Wrong methods. I'm not arguing anymore. I'm tired of this *silently withdraws* |
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Post by Beefy Titans on Jun 3, 2017 21:56:30 GMT
Let me just chime in and say that I support Anders bombing the chantry because the chantry is directly responsible to the violent oppression of mages, an act that includes but is not limited to killing mages, enslaving mages, lobotomizing mages, sexually abusing and attacking (and another verb here) them, imprisoning them, torturing them, physically and psychologically abusing them, separating them from their families, and so one. And such violent oppression has been happening for so long.
Violent oppressors warrant violent reactions against them from the oppressed as they are simply self defense. If anyone is going to commit the actions above on me, for example sexually assault me, I will try to fight back, and I believe in justifying of doing so. In deed considering the scale and the length of the mage oppression, I say a war against the chantry and the templar in purpose of liberating mages is justified.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 3, 2017 22:16:34 GMT
If mages are so powerful, Templars wouldn't be able to contain them, even with all their suppression abilities.
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Catilina
The Beastmaster
Wanted Apostate
Posts: 827 
Likes: 3,282
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Post by Catilina on Jun 3, 2017 22:23:03 GMT
If mages are so powerful, Templars wouldn't be able to contain them, even with all their suppression abilities. This is what I say constantly. Not mentioned, if they would be so dangerous walking bombs, then Thedas would be been a big black hole, and a tearful memory fragment in the Maker's nightmares. (Hah! I'm a poet!) |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2017 8:30:38 GMT
After all this time, there is now a mod to avoid ninjamancing in DAO. This edits dialogues to add various hints -- flirt, turn down, break up -- so it plays similarly to the icons. I've only seen it trigger once in a single Morrigan conversation so far, but it seems to be working. |
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Post by Vallerie on Jun 4, 2017 9:12:15 GMT
After all this time, there is now a mod to avoid ninjamancing in DAO. This edits dialogues to add various hints -- flirt, turn down, break up -- so it plays similarly to the icons. I've only seen it trigger once in a single Morrigan conversation so far, but it seems to be working. Ah yes, I've come across that when trying to find something to fix that horrendous combat delay. Would be great to not lead on companions for once  |
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Jun 4, 2017 9:28:04 GMT
I've tried to start Anders wank for weeks, and you guys end up starting it all on your own.  |
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Catilina
The Beastmaster
Wanted Apostate
Posts: 827
Likes: 3,282
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Post by Catilina on Jun 4, 2017 9:42:46 GMT
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nymeria
Dashing Rogue
Posts: 11 
Likes: 72
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Post by nymeria on Jun 4, 2017 11:52:17 GMT
I've tried to start Anders wank for weeks, and you guys end up starting it all on your own. Anders wank is why the Maker left us.  |
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Catilina
The Beastmaster
Wanted Apostate
Posts: 827
Likes: 3,282
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Post by Catilina on Jun 4, 2017 12:24:30 GMT
I've tried to start Anders wank for weeks, and you guys end up starting it all on your own. Anders wank is why the Maker left us. The Maker loves Anders. |
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Post by Vallerie on Jun 4, 2017 14:42:25 GMT
Anders wank is why the Maker left us. The Maker loves Anders. I beg to differ. *disappears back to shadows* |
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Post by Beefy Titans on Jun 4, 2017 20:33:35 GMT
If mages are so powerful, Templars wouldn't be able to contain them, even with all their suppression abilities. Templar should be put in jails too.  |
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Catilina
The Beastmaster
Wanted Apostate
Posts: 827
Likes: 3,282
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Post by Catilina on Jun 4, 2017 20:35:19 GMT
The peaceful solution a'la Elthina:  source |
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Post by nocte on Jun 4, 2017 22:20:32 GMT
I started a Surana (elf mage) for my Origins replay! He looks pretty good. One of my better looking Wardens. I play on xbox, so no mods for me. I wish Bioware could hair better.
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Post by Aurora'Harel on Jun 5, 2017 1:30:42 GMT
I started a Surana (elf mage) for my Origins replay! He looks pretty good. One of my better looking Wardens. I play on xbox, so no mods for me. I wish Bioware could hair better. yeah. I thought DA2 had some decent options, and then in DAI we had like 5 different bald heads. |
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Post by Vallerie on Jun 5, 2017 1:32:24 GMT
I started a Surana (elf mage) for my Origins replay! He looks pretty good. One of my better looking Wardens. I play on xbox, so no mods for me. I wish Bioware could hair better. Ah, Bioware hair. Although to be fair, only game where I was satisfied with my vanilla hair choices was like FFXIV. At least DAO wasn't as bad as DAI, where I can personally use maybe 1 vanilla hairstyle  And too bad you're on console, because DAO has some pretty cool mods available, my favorite one being DA2-ish elves |
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 5, 2017 1:50:56 GMT
I started a Surana (elf mage) for my Origins replay! He looks pretty good. One of my better looking Wardens. I play on xbox, so no mods for me. I wish Bioware could hair better. yeah. I thought DA2 had some decent options, and then in DAI we had like 5 different bald heads. Imagine how bald we could be in the next one.  |
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Post by Aurora'Harel on Jun 5, 2017 2:17:26 GMT
yeah. I thought DA2 had some decent options, and then in DAI we had like 5 different bald heads. Imagine how bald we could be in the next one. we can rival Solas with his bald head. Eggpai notice me! |
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Jun 5, 2017 6:37:55 GMT
I don't really care that much about having a variety of hairstyles, but I would love it if they made the meshes and textures of the available hairstyles look better than how they were in Inquisition.
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