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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2017 17:07:38 GMT
We don't have a thread where random discussion can happen, and the DA4 thread should stick to speculation about that.
I made this because I'm on a new DAO run, my first in about three years, and I'm planning to change some of my canon choices. I'd like to see some of y'all's reasoning behind various choices.
I suppose my first difficult choice will be the recruitment of Sten. Normally my mentality with recruiting DAO followers is, "We need all the help we can get." I need to have a really good roleplay reason for refusing to recruit someone. I've never given it much thought in the past, because I haven't really attempted to roleplay too much in DAO before, so I just accepted everyone. The horrific nature of his crime is mainly what is giving me pause here. Not only is the crime itself terrible, but my Warden is a Cousland who still has the fresh memory of his family's death, as well as seeing poor dead little Oren.
The main issue for me with this follower is that I actually like Sten, so I want a reason to accept him that will make sense for my Cousland. Any ideas?
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Catilina
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Post by Catilina on Jun 1, 2017 20:17:48 GMT
Hard question, yes, especially as Cousland, good point. Really never thought about it.
I recruited him because he seems harmless at the moment, and regretful (not as later Howe and Loghain) – this is the point. I gave him a chance to redeem himself and seems cruel to let him starve to death in a closed cage. This is a dangerous mission, not really a mercy. So: there is a reason to take with you. I can't say you a better reason.
(And this is a dark world, just look at Fenris: he also killed the Fog Warriors.)
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Post by phantomrachie on Jun 1, 2017 21:02:20 GMT
@nightscrawl I think an important question to ask yourself is, does your Warden believe in redemption?
If they do, then you can recruit Sten with the logic that he does regret his actions so he can try to redeem himself by saving other families from Darkspawn.
If they don't then there is no reason to free him. He admits to his crime and while leaving him to starve to death is cruel, it was the punishment that the town set for him.
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Post by Andrew Mancer on Jun 2, 2017 0:41:15 GMT
That's an interesting question.
The only companion I've ever done this with is Velanna.
My Warden married Alistair and, as prince-consort, decided to take justice into his own hands.
She had been preying upon his people and killing many innocents. He would not stand for this and killed her himself for all she had done. It was easy enough though since I, personally, don't like her. She's the only Awakening companion he didn't recruit.
I honestly didn't really take this into consideration when recruiting Sten.
I had already established my Cousland as a devout Andrastian and historian. Considering that he had never met a Qunari and didn't know much about the Qun, he saw this as a learning opportunity. He was interested in learning more about the Qun, their way of life, and why they didn't believe in the Maker. He also wanted to find out why Sten felt the way he did about what he had done.
His willingness to join the cause makes the recruitment smoother.
...Well, at least I hope this is a good enough reason/explanation.
I didn't really focus too much on Sten when developing my character. His relationships with Alistair, Leliana, Morrigan, and Wynne were much more important. I never even got to the point of recruiting Zevran in his story...I kind of just skipped right to the end after a certain point and focused on life after Origins.
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Catilina
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Post by Catilina on Jun 2, 2017 0:43:44 GMT
That's an interesting question. The only companion I've ever done this with is Velanna. My Warden married Alistair and, as prince-consort, decided to take justice into his own hands. She had been preying upon his people and killing many innocents. He would not stand for this and killed her himself for all she had done. It was easy enough though since I, personally, don't like her. She's the only Awakening companion he didn't recruit. I honestly didn't really take this into consideration when recruiting Sten. I had already established my Cousland as a devout Andrastian and historian. Considering that he had never met a Qunari and didn't know much about the Qun, he saw this as a learning opportunity. He was interested in learning more about the Qun, their way of life, and why they didn't believe in the Maker. He also wanted to find out why Sten felt the way he did about what he had done.His willingness to join the cause makes the recruitment smoother. ...Well, at least I hope this is a good enough reason/explanation. I didn't really focus too much on Sten when developing my character. His relationships with Alistair, Leliana, Morrigan, and Wynne were much more important. I never even got to the point of recruiting Zevran in his story...I kind of just skipped right to the end after a certain point and focused on life after Origins. Hmm, a good point! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2017 7:53:24 GMT
Some great responses! Thanks! @nightscrawl I think an important question to ask yourself is, does your Warden believe in redemption? If they do, then you can recruit Sten with the logic that he does regret his actions so he can try to redeem himself by saving other families from Darkspawn. If they don't then there is no reason to free him. He admits to his crime and while leaving him to starve to death is cruel, it was the punishment that the town set for him. Ah, you're right. This is definitely something to consider. I like playing my humans as Andrastian. This is a bit odd considering I don't have a faith in real life. I know that redemption and forgiveness are big with Christianity, and I've seen the families of victims forgive the person who killed their loved one. It's a difficult concept for me to grasp. I suppose I can use the same mentality as my Inquisitor does with Blackwall, but that case is a bit different since he's known him all that time. Some definite food for thought. |
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Post by Vallerie on Jun 2, 2017 17:48:35 GMT
Stupid song... I can't help but cry when the whole Inquisition starts singing The Dawn Will Come  As for you Sten situation...you could go for something like "Andraste wouldn't approve of me leaving him to die of hunger and in face of the blight she would probably want me to offer him redemption through actions his agains it" But I don't know, my all characters are non-religious /shrug |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2017 18:29:01 GMT
I went with phantomrachie's idea and did end up recruiting him.  At least I won't have this same issue when it comes to Zevran. Not going to trust that guy. |
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Catilina
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Post by Catilina on Jun 2, 2017 21:10:54 GMT
I went with phantomrachie 's idea and did end up recruiting him. At least I won't have this same issue when it comes to Zevran. Not going to trust that guy. What about Nathaniel? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2017 21:29:53 GMT
I went with phantomrachie 's idea and did end up recruiting him. At least I won't have this same issue when it comes to Zevran. Not going to trust that guy. What about Nathaniel? Nathaniel didn't kill anyone, though. He is caught sneaking around the keep. My Warden probably will not live to see Nathaniel (a good thing since he would be pining away for a guy he can't have). Even so, he wouldn't blame him for his father's actions. |
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Catilina
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Post by Catilina on Jun 2, 2017 21:32:32 GMT
Nathaniel didn't kill anyone, though. He is caught sneaking around the keep. My Warden probably will not live to see Nathaniel (a good thing since he would be pining away for a guy he can't have). Even so, he wouldn't blame him for his father's actions. Ah okay, I supposed, the Warden will survive. In this case, Nathaniel wanted to kill him/her, later changed his mind. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2017 21:41:05 GMT
Nathaniel didn't kill anyone, though. He is caught sneaking around the keep. My Warden probably will not live to see Nathaniel (a good thing since he would be pining away for a guy he can't have). Even so, he wouldn't blame him for his father's actions. Ah okay, I supposed, the Warden will survive. In this case, Nathaniel wanted to kill him/her, later changed his mind. Oooh I understand your question now. It's different from Zevran because the motive is different. Zevran was a career assassin who was hired to kill the Warden. At that point, he could be saying anything to live. I really don't see that there is any reason to trust him. And of course if you don't cultivate his friendship, he does indeed betray you. (I'm not going to kill Zevran in the recruitment scene.) I've recruited Zevran on pretty much every other DAO play, so I know hes okay, but I'm just not into is character. This will make that roleplay decision easier, whereas I needed that help with Sten. |
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Catilina
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Post by Catilina on Jun 2, 2017 21:50:12 GMT
Ah okay, I supposed, the Warden will survive. In this case, Nathaniel wanted to kill him/her, later changed his mind. Oooh I understand your question now. It's different from Zevran because the motive is different. Zevran was a career assassin who was hired to kill the Warden. At that point, he could be saying anything to live. I really don't see that there is any reason to trust him. And of course if you don't cultivate his friendship, he does indeed betray you. I can't consider it a betrayal. Just as I can't consider betrayal if Fenris leaves Hawke for the Templars, or if Anders leaves Hawke if Hawke supports the Templars. They just follow their own path. What about Alistair? He leaves wardens if Warden recruit Loghain... Yes, different: Howe even more dangerous, as I see... his reason is personal. (I don't want to convince you, I just say ...) |
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Post by Vallerie on Jun 2, 2017 22:34:59 GMT
Oooh I understand your question now. It's different from Zevran because the motive is different. Zevran was a career assassin who was hired to kill the Warden. At that point, he could be saying anything to live. I really don't see that there is any reason to trust him. And of course if you don't cultivate his friendship, he does indeed betray you. That is different. He does leave, but he neither tries to kill nor does he work against you at all. He is just being petty because you didn't fulfill his revenge fantasies. (Or well, just refuses to work with the person who framed you for killing the king I suppose...he does say it in very petulant way though  ) |
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Post by Catilina on Jun 2, 2017 22:49:20 GMT
What about Alistair? He leaves wardens if Warden recruit Loghain... That is different. He does leave, but he neither tries to kill nor does he work against you at all. He is just being petty because you didn't fulfill his revenge fantasies. (Or well, just refuses to work with the person who framed you for killing the king I suppose...he does say it in very petulant way though ) He doesn't have a chance to try to kill Warden or Loghain. But yes, he doesn't want to kill Warden. But even betrays the order for personal revenge. Even if I think, this is only a sudden wrath. Zevran needs only a few reputation to stay with Warden. And because he doesn't trust Warden, then he will follow his old lover. I don't think, Fenris wants to kill Hawke, only follow his own path. Hawke doesn't care about him. Anders feels betrayed in friendship, if Hawke supports the Templars at the end. And he's right: Hawke betrays him in this case. |
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Post by Vallerie on Jun 2, 2017 22:58:46 GMT
That is different. He does leave, but he neither tries to kill nor does he work against you at all. He is just being petty because you didn't fulfill his revenge fantasies. (Or well, just refuses to work with the person who framed you for killing the king I suppose...he does say it in very petulant way though ) He doesn't have a chance to try to kill Warden or Loghain. But yes, he doesn't want to kill Warden. But even betrays the order for personal revenge. Even if I think, this is only a sudden wrath. Zevran needs only a few reputation to stay with Warden. And because he doesn't trust Warden, then he will follow his old lover. I don't think, Fenris wants to kill Hawke, only follow his own path. Hawke doesn't care about him. Anders feels betrayed in friendship, if Hawke supports the Templars at the end. And he's right: Hawke betrays him in this case. As far as I remember, Zevran swears he won't try to kill you again as long as you are a better employer than Crows, but yes, Warden should know better tha to trust an assassin. Fenris simply doesn't care unless you are far enough in friendship path with him so yeah, not really a betrayal. Anders however...he has no right to talk about betrayal. I'm a mage, he claims to be my friend, I help him against Templars quite a few times and then he screws everything up without giving me an opportunity to talk him out of it beforehand? You bet he gets executed...enjoy your martyrdom, idiotic abomination |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2017 23:05:48 GMT
He doesn't have a chance to try to kill Warden or Loghain. But yes, he doesn't want to kill Warden. But even betrays the order for personal revenge. Even if I think, this is only a sudden wrath. Zevran needs only a few reputation to stay with Warden. And because he doesn't trust Warden, then he will follow his old lover. I don't think, Fenris wants to kill Hawke, only follow his own path. Hawke doesn't care about him. Anders feels betrayed in friendship, if Hawke supports the Templars at the end. And he's right: Hawke betrays him in this case. As far as I remember, Zevran swears he won't try to kill you again as long as you are a better employer than Crows, but yes, Warden should know better tha to trust an assassin. Fenris simply doesn't care unless you are far enough in friendship path with him so yeah, not really a betrayal. Anders however...he has no right to talk about betrayal. I'm a mage, he claims to be my friend, I help him against Templars quite a few times and then he screws everything up without giving me an opportunity to talk him out of it beforehand? You bet he gets executed...enjoy your martyrdom, idiotic abomination Yeah, considering that, even on a friend path where you have supported him every step of the way, even if in a romance, he still refuses to tell you the truth about why he wants your help with the funky ingredients. If you question him about it, he guilt trips you, and essentially makes it a litmus test of your friendship and/or love. To me it seems like there is a complete lack of trust there. I suppose the response to that will be that Hawke is also showing lack of trust, but I don't agree. Anders blatantly lies, and uses as the guise something he knows Hawke will want to help with: separating him from Justice. |
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 2, 2017 23:07:11 GMT
As far as I remember, Zevran swears he won't try to kill you again as long as you are a better employer than Crows, but yes, Warden should know better tha to trust an assassin. Fenris simply doesn't care unless you are far enough in friendship path with him so yeah, not really a betrayal. Anders however...he has no right to talk about betrayal. I'm a mage, he claims to be my friend, I help him against Templars quite a few times and then he screws everything up without giving me an opportunity to talk him out of it beforehand? You bet he gets executed...enjoy your martyrdom, idiotic abomination Yeah, considering that, even on a friend path where you have supported him every step of the way, even if in a romance, he still refuses to tell you the truth about why he wants your help with the funky ingredients. If you question him about it, he guilt trips you, and essentially makes it a litmus test of your friendship and/or love. To me it seems like there is a complete lack of trust there. I suppose the response to that will be that Hawke is also showing lack of trust, but I don't agree. Anders blatantly lies, and uses as the guise something he knows Hawke will want to help with: separating him from Justice. I choose to interpret it as Anders trying to give me a nice surprise.  |
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Post by Vallerie on Jun 2, 2017 23:13:30 GMT
Yeah, considering that, even on a friend path where you have supported him every step of the way, even if in a romance, he still refuses to tell you the truth about why he wants your help with the funky ingredients. If you question him about it, he guilt trips you, and essentially makes it a litmus test of your friendship and/or love. To me it seems like there is a complete lack of trust there. I suppose the response to that will be that Hawke is also showing lack of trust, but I don't agree. Anders blatantly lies, and uses as the guise something he knows Hawke will want to help with: separating him from Justice. I choose to interpret it as Anders trying to give me a nice surprise. Riiiiight, because blowing up churches and setting off wars are such a nice surprises |
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 2, 2017 23:29:24 GMT
I choose to interpret it as Anders trying to give me a nice surprise. Riiiiight, because blowing up churches and setting off wars are such a nice surprises Well if you don't like your gift, you can give it to me. >__> |
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Much love right back at ya!
