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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2021 22:34:34 GMT
It’s no surprise really given how BioWare, especially the ME team, is filled with dudes who continue to only ever fail upwards
*side eyes Walters and Gamble*
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Post by Lee on Feb 27, 2021 13:20:38 GMT
Saw some new tweets-so I thought I'd throw some more out! If nothing else MAYBE some uninformed fans might not waste their money expecting inclusive romance options.
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rondeeno
Dashing Rogue
Posts: 34
Likes: 193
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Post by rondeeno on Feb 28, 2021 3:20:01 GMT
Hi everyone. I just wanted to say that I'm disappointed as well. It makes me sad that they're willing to make all these changes to ME1 in the name of improving/modernizing the game, but they're apparently completely unwilling to add the MaleShep/Kaidan romance despite having all of the content they need for it. Raphael Sbarge recently did a podcast where he spoke about the romance and the remaster (my mod was actually mentioned as well). He spoke really passionately about how important it would be to add the romance to ME1 and that the remaster would've been the perfect opportunity to do so. I thought it might help raise everyone's spirits to know that he feels the same way. Here's the link to the podcast, the Mass Effect discussion starts at 47:22. |
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Post by Lee on Feb 28, 2021 4:00:56 GMT
Hi everyone. I just wanted to say that I'm disappointed as well. It makes me sad that they're willing to make all these changes to ME1 in the name of improving/modernizing the game, but they're apparently completely unwilling to add the MaleShep/Kaidan romance despite having all of the content they need for it. Raphael Sbarge recently did a podcast where he spoke about the romance and the remaster (my mod was actually mentioned as well). He spoke really passionately about how important it would be to add the romance to ME1 and that the remaster would've been the perfect opportunity to do so. I thought it might help raise everyone's spirits to know that he feels the same way. Here's the link to the podcast, the Mass Effect discussion starts at 47:22. Thanks for sharing! I'm listening now, and it's great to hear he's on our side. BioWare should do better by now! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2021 9:12:55 GMT
Reading that interview Walters gave, the tone really speaks to this sense I’ve had that all the dudes involved regret the decision to make Kaidan romanceable by MaleShep in ME3 was always something they regret and wish they could walk back from, like my irrational side is even worried the stuff in 3 could be changed or possibly censored.
Either way their complete and utter lack of intent to even entertain the notion of including the romance option in 1 fills me with no hope going forward, not while these incompetent hacks still hold the reigns.
*still not over this*
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Post by Lee on Feb 28, 2021 10:25:10 GMT
I don't think any of us will really get over it. It's been years that we've been trying to get BioWare to stop treating us like dirt, and yet they persist. It wasn't okay back then really, but sure you could get away with it a lot cleaner then. Now though?
Why isn't the media helping out? BioWare has been their prime target for a while now, so why not take them to task about this?
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Post by dgcatanisiri on Feb 28, 2021 19:07:55 GMT
I don't think any of us will really get over it. It's been years that we've been trying to get BioWare to stop treating us like dirt, and yet they persist. It wasn't okay back then really, but sure you could get away with it a lot cleaner then. Now though? Why isn't the media helping out? BioWare has been their prime target for a while now, so why not take them to task about this? Y'all know I try and find silver linings, but in this... I think the reality really is simply that no one cares. Or, more specifically, no one with enough clout cares.
I mean, look at the reaction videos to the announcement. The "official" fan channels made no editorializing on the subject - there was at most an undercurrent of "yeah, it's kinda sucky, but these are REMASTERS, not REMAKES, they aren't going to just add 'new content' in them." And that's if you were lucky. So no one reports on this, because the perceived attitude is "there's not enough care that these games are perpetuating homophobia." Because it's not considered a big enough story. Even from the "failure to be inclusive" angle, it doesn't make the cut, because the majority of the straight audience... doesn't care, or are even actively AGAINST that inclusion (witness the response I got to saying "I don't want this remaster if it doesn't include a full trilogy Male Shepard/Kaidan romance" when the announcement came).
Hell, our hashtag campaign hasn't really gotten anywhere - #MakeJaalBi had thousands of people contributing to it. But the #MakeMassEffectGayerAgain? I saw more activity from #NotMyOdyssey, and we all know how that ended up a big fat nothing.
The larger picture I will go to here is that Mass Effect is a combination of genres - science fiction and shooter video games - that have a long history of exclusion of gay men (and using lesbians for straight male titilation...). So when there's a perpetuation of it, it's not a newsworthy event.
It should be, mind you, but... There's no reporter writing about it because the way that the general audience seems to feel is in the "who cares?" to "what do you expect?" range, rather than there being enough of a groundswell of anger to pounce on it, like there was with #MakeJaalBi - there, we at least had vocal straight support, acknowledging that it was wrong for a game released in 2017 to be imbalanced like that. But here, it's "well, it's a remaster of games from 2007/2010/2012, they're not going to CHANGE things."
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Post by Lee on Mar 1, 2021 2:58:17 GMT
Ugh, I know some people actually made it sound like if they restored the content that it'd be a remake and then they'd really start changing other things and ruin it. Like...what a horseshit argument, but sadly people REALLY think that way.
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Post by Lee on Mar 2, 2021 4:49:16 GMT
*go. Darn Twitter's lack of an edit button while I'm blushing and too excited to realize what I'm doing. lol!
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Post by dgcatanisiri on Mar 3, 2021 6:42:40 GMT
My general opinion on online petitions is that they really don't do anything, and just get ignored, but there's one that's gone up to actively get some kind of response from BioWare. Text of the petition: To: BioWare, EA, and Mac Walters - Project Director for the Mass Effect: Legendary Edition
From: James W. (MShenko2187 on Tumblr, Reddit, Twitter); Craig N. (Quarian Otter); Cory P. (Estalfaed); and, Charles S. on behalf of ourselves and other LGBTQIA+ fans
We the initial signers are an LGBTcrew of avid sci-fi fans who have connected across social media platforms over our mutual love for the Mass Effect universe. The last four months have been a rollercoaster for us. Growing excitement over the rumors of the Legendary Edition turned to joy at its announcement and then dismay when it became clear there would be no update or improvement to the lacking same-sex romance options. This sadness turned to anger and distrust in January when news broke that Jack and Jacob also had planned same-sex romances which were ultimately cut from ME2 [Source 1; Source 2]. And that distrust only grew when various reports gave contradictory reasons for why this happened [Source 3]. Finally, when fuller details emerged in February about the extent of the work being done on ME1 led to questions about including Kaidan’s same-sex romance, we got more excuses about his romance never being planned - despite already known evidence to the contrary in the form of unused dialogue and animations left behind in the game’s code [Source 4].
Given the numerous reports and contradictory information coming from the studios and developers over the last few months regarding ME’s same-sex romance options, we are asking for:
A full, detailed explanation of the reasons why these characters’ same-sex dialogues and romances were originally planned on some level and had dialogue written and/or recorded, but were ultimately excluded from the games;
A formal apology from the studios for the deliberately exclusionary decisions made regarding all three characters, both in the original version and Legendary Edition;
A Legendary Edition post-release patch for an MShep-Kaidan romance using and filling in existing material so we can have one trilogy-spanning male same-sex romance;
A frank and open assessment of the possibility of finishing the same-sex romances for Jack and Jacob and the potential for Legendary Edition patches;
A detailed, public plan of concrete steps the studios and creative directors will take to ensure diverse, accurate, and comparable LGBTQIA+ representation in future ME projects.
For the following reasons:
BioWare made the fantastic decision to normalize FemShep’s face model throughout the trilogy and implement a better character builder! Modders already made some of those changes possible, often using existing material in the source code. Modders also used material in the source files to generate same-sex romances in ME1. While claiming to have consulted fans and the modding community during its planning and completion of the Legendary Edition [Source 5], BioWare has apparently elected to stop short of also increasing LGBTQIA+ representation. This is a deliberate decision with harmful consequences, regardless of intent.
Kaidan Alenko’s same-sex romance especially doesn’t reinvent the wheel. An MShep-Kaidan romance following the same story arc as a FemShep romance largely using existing material changes neither Kaidan’s canonical bisexuality nor any major trilogy plot points.
Likewise, Jack and Jacob’s same-sex romance arcs could also follow the existing tracks for their respective Shepards and still work without needing to make drastic story changes.
Post-release patches give the development teams enough time to do these treatments right without adversely affecting their working conditions under a looming deadline during an ongoing pandemic.
BioWare has previously demonstrated both their ability and a willingness to edit their existing games to fix this lack of representation. After fans showed a need and desire for increased same-gender romances in Mass Effect: Andromeda, the studios released a patch to add a romance for Jaal with Scott Ryder. The patch notes specifically state “The relationships with your crew are some of the most loved and cherished parts of our games, so we wanted to make sure we got it right. We consulted with members of the LGBTQ community, both externally and within our own studios. After carefully considering all feedback, we decided this was an important change to make, and one that made sense for Jaal, Scott, and the angara.” [Source 6]
Addressing and fixing these issues demonstrates we’re a valued fanbase who face real-life consequences when we’re not represented well and have to ask for it. After all, we’re all signing with new usernames or initials out of concern about targeted social media attacks.
Restoring this content in 2021 when LGBTQIA+ representation has never been more visible and expected in mainstream entertainment will only serve to bolster the studios’ reputation moving forward.
It is our hope that BioWare and EA will give serious consideration to addressing these concerns in your endeavor to revamp interest in the Mass Effect universe. We recognize that these games have helped make strides in LGBTQIA+ representation easier, and we are now asking the studios to do better as a show of good faith in anticipation of future projects.
And to our fellow LGBTcrewmates, supporters and allies, thank you for signing! We will update you as the situation changes. Can't say I particularly argue with looking at it from the perspective of a post-release patch at this point, given all we know about crunch culture and how overworked developers tend to be. For the record, if one does come, be it for just Kaidan or more, I absolutely would making picking up the Legendary Edition a priority. Until such time, though, I stand by refusing to get this remaster. I also particularly approve of the idea of being public about further representation - the fact is, although there are a few people on staff who identify on the queer spectrum, they don't have enough involved in the decision making process - to date, the extent of the open and active queer BioWare "names," the people involved in mapping out the story and how the games develop, are Patrick Weekes (nonbinary) and I want to say their wife, Karin Weekes, is bisexual. Both are on the Dragon Age side of things, though, meaning that we have only straight people working on Mass Effect. And if how Gil was written in Mass Effect Andromeda is any indication... That VEHEMENTLY is not enough. |
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Post by mediocreogre on Mar 4, 2021 4:33:35 GMT
Gil’s romance was a decent concept under a garbled mess of edits Mac Walters added after doing a bump of cocaine, and smoking 50mg of DMT and writing down all his thoughts about declining birth rates being the fault of the gays after reading a Matt Yglesias article while listening to a Stephen Pinker gobbledygook speech.
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Post by Lee on Mar 17, 2021 3:44:42 GMT
I try to be nice honest, but then I get to typing.
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Post by VFerreira93 on Apr 6, 2021 16:14:08 GMT
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Post by Andrew Mancer on Apr 6, 2021 17:56:33 GMT
I DONT WANT TO BUY THIS GAME BECAUSE THEY HATE US BUT I WANT TO BUY THIS GAME BECAUSE I LOVE MASS EFFECT. WHY IS MY LIFE LIKE THIS?!
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Post by Lee on Apr 7, 2021 3:47:18 GMT
I DONT WANT TO BUY THIS GAME BECAUSE THEY HATE US BUT I WANT TO BUY THIS GAME BECAUSE I LOVE MASS EFFECT. WHY IS MY LIFE LIKE THIS?! Preach! Honestly that's sort of how I feel about the whole gaming industry most days. I feel like it 100% doesn't want me to be a part of the community, but gaming has been a major part of my life for as long as I can remember. It's so...damaging. I mean if it isn't companies dismissing the needs of gay players, it's also big companies telling us how "no one wants single player games anymore"...it's just always something! It's so exhausting. I wish I could find something I enjoy as much as gaming that's not gaming. |
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Post by dgcatanisiri on Apr 11, 2021 22:57:22 GMT
My general opinion on online petitions is that they really don't do anything, and just get ignored, but there's one that's gone up to actively get some kind of response from BioWare. Text of the petition: To: BioWare, EA, and Mac Walters - Project Director for the Mass Effect: Legendary Edition
From: James W. (MShenko2187 on Tumblr, Reddit, Twitter); Craig N. (Quarian Otter); Cory P. (Estalfaed); and, Charles S. on behalf of ourselves and other LGBTQIA+ fans
We the initial signers are an LGBTcrew of avid sci-fi fans who have connected across social media platforms over our mutual love for the Mass Effect universe. The last four months have been a rollercoaster for us. Growing excitement over the rumors of the Legendary Edition turned to joy at its announcement and then dismay when it became clear there would be no update or improvement to the lacking same-sex romance options. This sadness turned to anger and distrust in January when news broke that Jack and Jacob also had planned same-sex romances which were ultimately cut from ME2 [Source 1; Source 2]. And that distrust only grew when various reports gave contradictory reasons for why this happened [Source 3]. Finally, when fuller details emerged in February about the extent of the work being done on ME1 led to questions about including Kaidan’s same-sex romance, we got more excuses about his romance never being planned - despite already known evidence to the contrary in the form of unused dialogue and animations left behind in the game’s code [Source 4].
Given the numerous reports and contradictory information coming from the studios and developers over the last few months regarding ME’s same-sex romance options, we are asking for:
A full, detailed explanation of the reasons why these characters’ same-sex dialogues and romances were originally planned on some level and had dialogue written and/or recorded, but were ultimately excluded from the games;
A formal apology from the studios for the deliberately exclusionary decisions made regarding all three characters, both in the original version and Legendary Edition;
A Legendary Edition post-release patch for an MShep-Kaidan romance using and filling in existing material so we can have one trilogy-spanning male same-sex romance;
A frank and open assessment of the possibility of finishing the same-sex romances for Jack and Jacob and the potential for Legendary Edition patches;
A detailed, public plan of concrete steps the studios and creative directors will take to ensure diverse, accurate, and comparable LGBTQIA+ representation in future ME projects.
For the following reasons:
BioWare made the fantastic decision to normalize FemShep’s face model throughout the trilogy and implement a better character builder! Modders already made some of those changes possible, often using existing material in the source code. Modders also used material in the source files to generate same-sex romances in ME1. While claiming to have consulted fans and the modding community during its planning and completion of the Legendary Edition [Source 5], BioWare has apparently elected to stop short of also increasing LGBTQIA+ representation. This is a deliberate decision with harmful consequences, regardless of intent.
Kaidan Alenko’s same-sex romance especially doesn’t reinvent the wheel. An MShep-Kaidan romance following the same story arc as a FemShep romance largely using existing material changes neither Kaidan’s canonical bisexuality nor any major trilogy plot points.
Likewise, Jack and Jacob’s same-sex romance arcs could also follow the existing tracks for their respective Shepards and still work without needing to make drastic story changes.
Post-release patches give the development teams enough time to do these treatments right without adversely affecting their working conditions under a looming deadline during an ongoing pandemic.
BioWare has previously demonstrated both their ability and a willingness to edit their existing games to fix this lack of representation. After fans showed a need and desire for increased same-gender romances in Mass Effect: Andromeda, the studios released a patch to add a romance for Jaal with Scott Ryder. The patch notes specifically state “The relationships with your crew are some of the most loved and cherished parts of our games, so we wanted to make sure we got it right. We consulted with members of the LGBTQ community, both externally and within our own studios. After carefully considering all feedback, we decided this was an important change to make, and one that made sense for Jaal, Scott, and the angara.” [Source 6]
Addressing and fixing these issues demonstrates we’re a valued fanbase who face real-life consequences when we’re not represented well and have to ask for it. After all, we’re all signing with new usernames or initials out of concern about targeted social media attacks.
Restoring this content in 2021 when LGBTQIA+ representation has never been more visible and expected in mainstream entertainment will only serve to bolster the studios’ reputation moving forward.
It is our hope that BioWare and EA will give serious consideration to addressing these concerns in your endeavor to revamp interest in the Mass Effect universe. We recognize that these games have helped make strides in LGBTQIA+ representation easier, and we are now asking the studios to do better as a show of good faith in anticipation of future projects.
And to our fellow LGBTcrewmates, supporters and allies, thank you for signing! We will update you as the situation changes. Can't say I particularly argue with looking at it from the perspective of a post-release patch at this point, given all we know about crunch culture and how overworked developers tend to be. For the record, if one does come, be it for just Kaidan or more, I absolutely would making picking up the Legendary Edition a priority. Until such time, though, I stand by refusing to get this remaster. I also particularly approve of the idea of being public about further representation - the fact is, although there are a few people on staff who identify on the queer spectrum, they don't have enough involved in the decision making process - to date, the extent of the open and active queer BioWare "names," the people involved in mapping out the story and how the games develop, are Patrick Weekes (nonbinary) and I want to say their wife, Karin Weekes, is bisexual. Both are on the Dragon Age side of things, though, meaning that we have only straight people working on Mass Effect. And if how Gil was written in Mass Effect Andromeda is any indication... That VEHEMENTLY is not enough.
Hey, it's a news outlet finally talking about it, I'm gonna at least say that's a step in the right direction, even if there's no response - at least it's not just grumpy queers on social media bitterly talking about it at this point. Make enough of a buzz, it might force more outlets to respond too.
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Post by turianlannister on Apr 12, 2021 0:03:47 GMT
My general opinion on online petitions is that they really don't do anything, and just get ignored, but there's one that's gone up to actively get some kind of response from BioWare. Text of the petition: To: BioWare, EA, and Mac Walters - Project Director for the Mass Effect: Legendary Edition
From: James W. (MShenko2187 on Tumblr, Reddit, Twitter); Craig N. (Quarian Otter); Cory P. (Estalfaed); and, Charles S. on behalf of ourselves and other LGBTQIA+ fans
We the initial signers are an LGBTcrew of avid sci-fi fans who have connected across social media platforms over our mutual love for the Mass Effect universe. The last four months have been a rollercoaster for us. Growing excitement over the rumors of the Legendary Edition turned to joy at its announcement and then dismay when it became clear there would be no update or improvement to the lacking same-sex romance options. This sadness turned to anger and distrust in January when news broke that Jack and Jacob also had planned same-sex romances which were ultimately cut from ME2 [Source 1; Source 2]. And that distrust only grew when various reports gave contradictory reasons for why this happened [Source 3]. Finally, when fuller details emerged in February about the extent of the work being done on ME1 led to questions about including Kaidan’s same-sex romance, we got more excuses about his romance never being planned - despite already known evidence to the contrary in the form of unused dialogue and animations left behind in the game’s code [Source 4].
Given the numerous reports and contradictory information coming from the studios and developers over the last few months regarding ME’s same-sex romance options, we are asking for:
A full, detailed explanation of the reasons why these characters’ same-sex dialogues and romances were originally planned on some level and had dialogue written and/or recorded, but were ultimately excluded from the games;
A formal apology from the studios for the deliberately exclusionary decisions made regarding all three characters, both in the original version and Legendary Edition;
A Legendary Edition post-release patch for an MShep-Kaidan romance using and filling in existing material so we can have one trilogy-spanning male same-sex romance;
A frank and open assessment of the possibility of finishing the same-sex romances for Jack and Jacob and the potential for Legendary Edition patches;
A detailed, public plan of concrete steps the studios and creative directors will take to ensure diverse, accurate, and comparable LGBTQIA+ representation in future ME projects.
For the following reasons:
BioWare made the fantastic decision to normalize FemShep’s face model throughout the trilogy and implement a better character builder! Modders already made some of those changes possible, often using existing material in the source code. Modders also used material in the source files to generate same-sex romances in ME1. While claiming to have consulted fans and the modding community during its planning and completion of the Legendary Edition [Source 5], BioWare has apparently elected to stop short of also increasing LGBTQIA+ representation. This is a deliberate decision with harmful consequences, regardless of intent.
Kaidan Alenko’s same-sex romance especially doesn’t reinvent the wheel. An MShep-Kaidan romance following the same story arc as a FemShep romance largely using existing material changes neither Kaidan’s canonical bisexuality nor any major trilogy plot points.
Likewise, Jack and Jacob’s same-sex romance arcs could also follow the existing tracks for their respective Shepards and still work without needing to make drastic story changes.
Post-release patches give the development teams enough time to do these treatments right without adversely affecting their working conditions under a looming deadline during an ongoing pandemic.
BioWare has previously demonstrated both their ability and a willingness to edit their existing games to fix this lack of representation. After fans showed a need and desire for increased same-gender romances in Mass Effect: Andromeda, the studios released a patch to add a romance for Jaal with Scott Ryder. The patch notes specifically state “The relationships with your crew are some of the most loved and cherished parts of our games, so we wanted to make sure we got it right. We consulted with members of the LGBTQ community, both externally and within our own studios. After carefully considering all feedback, we decided this was an important change to make, and one that made sense for Jaal, Scott, and the angara.” [Source 6]
Addressing and fixing these issues demonstrates we’re a valued fanbase who face real-life consequences when we’re not represented well and have to ask for it. After all, we’re all signing with new usernames or initials out of concern about targeted social media attacks.
Restoring this content in 2021 when LGBTQIA+ representation has never been more visible and expected in mainstream entertainment will only serve to bolster the studios’ reputation moving forward.
It is our hope that BioWare and EA will give serious consideration to addressing these concerns in your endeavor to revamp interest in the Mass Effect universe. We recognize that these games have helped make strides in LGBTQIA+ representation easier, and we are now asking the studios to do better as a show of good faith in anticipation of future projects.
And to our fellow LGBTcrewmates, supporters and allies, thank you for signing! We will update you as the situation changes. Can't say I particularly argue with looking at it from the perspective of a post-release patch at this point, given all we know about crunch culture and how overworked developers tend to be. For the record, if one does come, be it for just Kaidan or more, I absolutely would making picking up the Legendary Edition a priority. Until such time, though, I stand by refusing to get this remaster. I also particularly approve of the idea of being public about further representation - the fact is, although there are a few people on staff who identify on the queer spectrum, they don't have enough involved in the decision making process - to date, the extent of the open and active queer BioWare "names," the people involved in mapping out the story and how the games develop, are Patrick Weekes (nonbinary) and I want to say their wife, Karin Weekes, is bisexual. Both are on the Dragon Age side of things, though, meaning that we have only straight people working on Mass Effect. And if how Gil was written in Mass Effect Andromeda is any indication... That VEHEMENTLY is not enough.
Hey, it's a news outlet finally talking about it, I'm gonna at least say that's a step in the right direction, even if there's no response - at least it's not just grumpy queers on social media bitterly talking about it at this point. Make enough of a buzz, it might force more outlets to respond too.
Do you need to be a member to read the comments? It says you need to be a member to post so I'm wondering |
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Post by turianlannister on Apr 12, 2021 2:00:08 GMT
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Post by mediocreogre on Apr 12, 2021 13:21:45 GMT
PinkNews is a relatively easy lgbtq news organization to get straight people to consider clicking and then stay on the website long enough to read. So that’s definitely a good development.
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Post by VFerreira93 on Apr 13, 2021 16:22:05 GMT
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