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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2017 11:22:52 GMT
I spent far too long making these so I may as well share them here too. Complete "Cabinet of Wonder Whose it Was" and "Past and Now Things" for a romanced Elven mage. (Yes I went there and I loved it.) "Make her happy. I will keep that she was happy." I love her journals and that they keep updating, what a treat it was in the game. Sera's not my favorite BW romance, but there's so much about it that's really sweet...I think part of what's wrong with it is the Inquisitor herself. Playing human, at least, the PC is a bit dull overall and there are too many opportunities to be mean to Sera, it's weird. Even on the romance path, you can confirm every fear/bad thought Sera has about herself. It just felt for me that despite all the highlights of the romance, the two characters never quite gelled in that "partners in crime/you and me against the world" way. I can quite understand how Sera doesn't work for everyone. She was explicitly designed do be divisive, and I think that's why you get so many opportunities to be put her down. In the end though she just gelled so well with my canon Inquisitor, and the diary was one of the things that really elevated the romance above others for me. This makes me wonder whether the dev bias influenced player perception. Like, she was written to be a divisive character, they went forward with the idea that players will love her or hate her throughout the development of the game. So when they were designing her dialogue tree, they always had the option to kick her out be in the starting branch, when no other character has this glaring reminder that they're optional and it's "okay" if the player doesn't want to keep her. Compared to Vivienne, who is also optional and divisive but can't be ejected once she's recruited. Having this reminder whenever we talk to Sera that we can kick her out reinforces, IMO, her status as not meant to be enjoyed by every player. Then add in that so much of the dialogue options with her are putting down her ideas or disagreeing with her and it feels like it has to be a very specific personality PC who gets along with her. Most other Bioware companions we can be friendly and encouraging without agreeing with everything they say, but I feel like I have to choose carefully in dialogue choice in order not to lose approval. Plus she is always hard to gain approval from the big choices like mages and templars, Wardens, as she doesn't like the major politics since they don't help the little people, so I'm always scrambling to get approval for her after she disapproves along the main plot. She would have been a good candidate for the DA2 friendship rivalry system, I think. She has clear goals and an agenda and it's very easy to side with her or take an opposing (but still supportive) stance, like when we use the nobility perk to claim the lands of the noble in her personal quest rather than kill him as she wants. |
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2017 15:38:33 GMT
Since I have so many of you Sera-loving ladies in one place, I would like your view on the way she is written. A recent post over in the BSN romance thread made me ask this.
Some lesbians and bi ladies don't like that she was written by a man, or think that a man should not have written her "because it REALLY shows in her character."
Are any of you bothered by this? Do you like her despite this? Does it not matter at all for the way she is portrayed?
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2017 15:41:20 GMT
This makes me wonder whether the dev bias influenced player perception. Like, she was written to be a divisive character, they went forward with the idea that players will love her or hate her throughout the development of the game. So when they were designing her dialogue tree, they always had the option to kick her out be in the starting branch, when no other character has this glaring reminder that they're optional and it's "okay" if the player doesn't want to keep her. Compared to Vivienne, who is also optional and divisive but can't be ejected once she's recruited. Having this reminder whenever we talk to Sera that we can kick her out reinforces, IMO, her status as not meant to be enjoyed by every player. It's always bothered me that the option to kick her out is always present. Just as it bothers me that the option to break up with Dorian is always present for him. It's like the devs picked the most hurtful thing for the character and gave players the option of doing it. As far as I know, this doesn't apply to anyone else. |
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Post by yourfunnyuncle on May 27, 2017 18:42:37 GMT
While it didn't spoil the romance for me, I think that a failing of DAI was the lack of choice available to the Inquisitor in responding to complex or controversial situations. This was especially obvious with Sera and Vivienne.
As a straight guy, I can't give a useful opinion on Sera's writing in terms of it being written by a man. What I can say from years reading every post in the old 4000-page Sera thread is that while some lesbians and bi/pansexual women had problems with it and made those known vocally, others seemed to disagree, at least to the extent that they loved her anyway.
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Post by vertigomez on May 29, 2017 15:32:36 GMT
Since I have so many of you Sera-loving ladies in one place, I would like your view on the way she is written. A recent post over in the BSN romance thread made me ask this. Some lesbians and bi ladies don't like that she was written by a man, or think that a man should not have written her "because it REALLY shows in her character." Are any of you bothered by this? Do you like her despite this? Does it not matter at all for the way she is portrayed? Honestly? In Sera's case, it doesn't bother me a whit. But I'm biased because I don't want Sera or her romance to be different, which it would inevitably be if she were written by anyone else. She's one of my favorite characters and her romance is my absolute favorite f/f romance to date (over Leliana, Isabela***, Merrill, and Josephine, none of whom were written by straight dudes). I personally don't feel like "it shows in her character" - I think a lot of people just don't like her personality or think she's too childish, which is fair...... not everyone has to like the same thing. That said, I absolutely do think that more LGBT writers should be writing LGBT characters and romances, because we're coming at it from a fundamentally different perspective - we've been that character, we've lived that life, we've yearned for this or that type of romance. For LGBT writers, an LGBT romance is not just theoretical, or a fun creative writing exercise. It's what we want and need to see in our media. It's a reflection of our lives. And even though I think Sera is THE BEST, I'm not going to argue with someone who wanted a more "mature" or less divisive LI and thinks that an LGBT writer would've been able to deliver. ***When I take my feels out of the equation, I do think that Isabela's romance is a fundamentally "better" f/f romance. Like, in the sense of breaking new ground and writing something that a lot of wlw wanted to see. She's very much a grown woman - she's not sweet and demure, she's not young and looking for a rock to cling to. She loves Hawke but she doesn't need Hawke. There's drama and betrayal and you fight the Arishok in her honor and the whole arc is - blessedly - not that different from stories where the male hero swoops in and ~tames~ the femme fatale (bless u Sheryl Chee). She's also the poster girl romance that was featured in the trailer (which, yeah, she was kissing male Hawke, but it highlighted her importance and LGBT characters don't usually get that). Anyway, sorry for the word vomit. tl;dr I'm not bothered that Luke wrote Sera. I think he did a great job. But I wouldn't want someone to use that as an excuse for not letting LGBT writers write LGBT stories in the future. This makes me wonder whether the dev bias influenced player perception. Like, she was written to be a divisive character, they went forward with the idea that players will love her or hate her throughout the development of the game. So when they were designing her dialogue tree, they always had the option to kick her out be in the starting branch, when no other character has this glaring reminder that they're optional and it's "okay" if the player doesn't want to keep her. Compared to Vivienne, who is also optional and divisive but can't be ejected once she's recruited. Having this reminder whenever we talk to Sera that we can kick her out reinforces, IMO, her status as not meant to be enjoyed by every player. It's always bothered me that the option to kick her out is always present. Just as it bothers me that the option to break up with Dorian is always present for him. It's like the devs picked the most hurtful thing for the character and gave players the option of doing it. As far as I know, this doesn't apply to anyone else. THIS. I mean, exploiting Sera's issues with feeling like she doesn't belong anywhere and Dorian's feeling that he won't ever have a real relationship... eugh. That shit is painful. |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2017 16:21:54 GMT
Anyway, sorry for the word vomit. tl;dr I'm not bothered that Luke wrote Sera. I think he did a great job. But I wouldn't want someone to use that as an excuse for not letting LGBT writers write LGBT stories in the future. The post was essentially the opposite of this. It used Luke's writing of Sera, and the fact that some lesbians and bi women had issues with her or the romance, as a reason why more LGBT people should be writing LGBT characters. This is why I asked the question. |
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Post by The Haunting of Praise Adrast on May 29, 2017 16:56:10 GMT
Anyway, sorry for the word vomit. tl;dr I'm not bothered that Luke wrote Sera. I think he did a great job. But I wouldn't want someone to use that as an excuse for not letting LGBT writers write LGBT stories in the future. The post was essentially the opposite of this. It used Luke's writing of Sera, and the fact that some lesbians and bi women had issues with her or the romance, as a reason why more LGBT people should be writing LGBT characters. This is why I asked the question. I'm with vertigomez on all of this. Issues with the character were, to me, just that she could be prickly and divisive. (And like I said earlier, mostly it was issues with the Inquisitor herself, who I thought was a bit of a pill and my least favorite BW protagonist so far.) I never once thought "Sera wouldn't be like this if she weren't written by a man", and I think all of her...mmm, lezness was handled just fine. She likes women and she makes it clear, both physically and emotionally. She's not my overall favorite BW LI, but in terms of "gayness" I think she's probably the best, though of course I'm only speaking of f/f. So confronted with the argument raised, I would think some women simply don't like Sera and/or her romance...and since characters can't exist without their writers, they blame his maleness and his (I assume) straightness rather than just saying "she didn't jive with me, I hated her." |
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Mihura
The Beastmaster
Elephant whispers
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Post by Mihura on May 29, 2017 17:31:59 GMT
The post was essentially the opposite of this. It used Luke's writing of Sera, and the fact that some lesbians and bi women had issues with her or the romance, as a reason why more LGBT people should be writing LGBT characters. This is why I asked the question. I'm with vertigomez on all of this. Issues with the character were, to me, just that she could be prickly and divisive. (And like I said earlier, mostly it was issues with the Inquisitor herself, who I thought was a bit of a pill and my least favorite BW protagonist so far.) I never once thought "Sera wouldn't be like this if she weren't written by a man", and I think all of her...mmm, lezness was handled just fine. She likes women and she makes it clear, both physically and emotionally. She's not my overall favorite BW LI, but in terms of "gayness" I think she's probably the best, though of course I'm only speaking of f/f. So confronted with the argument raised, I would think some women simply don't like Sera and/or her romance...and since characters can't exist without their writers, they blame his maleness and his (I assume) straightness rather than just saying "she didn't jive with me, I hated her."I think that is not the problem, Luke characters are always kinda shitty when talking to NPCs or the PC, it is not really about he being straight or not. He just writes characters like that, so for the first lesbian companion maybe other writer with some positive vibes? because we only got lesbians that are dead, evil or moral ambiguous in DA. |
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Post by Crimson on May 29, 2017 18:41:44 GMT
Since I have so many of you Sera-loving ladies in one place, I would like your view on the way she is written. A recent post over in the BSN romance thread made me ask this. Some lesbians and bi ladies don't like that she was written by a man, or think that a man should not have written her "because it REALLY shows in her character." Are any of you bothered by this? Do you like her despite this? Does it not matter at all for the way she is portrayed? Before the official BSN was torn down, I went about saving Lukas' posts that he made in the Sera thread. Here is what he had to say on that question when asked...  As for my opinion, most of the dislike Sera get's is due to folk not liking her personality for various reasons, okay fine, but I resent the idea that she is bad lesbian rep. That's bogus. |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2017 19:02:46 GMT
Thanks for responses, everyone. As for my opinion, most of the dislike Sera get's is due to folk not liking her personality for various reasons, okay fine, but I resent the idea that she is bad lesbian rep. That's bogus. Thanks for that post. That also reflects what I saw David Gaider say on the issue on his Tumblr. To continue with vertigomez 's remarks, I think that the difference is in writing a character that happens to be gay (Sera), and a character who has their sexuality as part of their story (Dorian). I do think it's important that a gay person be the one to tell that story, because it gives it authenticity and there is that nuance of understanding, whereas with Sera it shouldn't really matter, just as it didn't matter for Luke's writing of Aveline, or of David Gaider's writing of Cassandra. Aaaanyway, continue on with the Sera fangirl/boying.  |
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Post by vertigomez on Jun 13, 2017 15:09:05 GMT
I love my beautiful elf wife.  Bull: Point is, a group needs rules, so you know who's in and who's out. Sera: Only if the whole point is keeping people out. Bull: Yes? And? Sera: That's not what Andraste's for. Shouldn't be. She's amazing.  |
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Post by vertigomez on Jun 26, 2017 23:09:35 GMT
THIS IS GREAT!  |
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Post by vertigomez on Jun 29, 2017 13:42:17 GMT
Triple post, huhu. I was Interneting and I found THIS Dagna x Sera bit from Trespasser in Sera's journal (about the Qunari shenanigans) and now I'm dyiinnnngg, they are too cute.  -Tell Widdle. Proper smart. She'll sort it.
-She can burn all the scary. Seen her do it. Still smooshy. |
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Post by garbagepailkid on Jul 1, 2017 14:02:21 GMT
Since I have so many of you Sera-loving ladies in one place, I would like your view on the way she is written. A recent post over in the BSN romance thread made me ask this. Some lesbians and bi ladies don't like that she was written by a man, or think that a man should not have written her "because it REALLY shows in her character." Are any of you bothered by this? Do you like her despite this? Does it not matter at all for the way she is portrayed? This is old, but I'm procrastinating so I'll answer. in bullet points because i love them - I can agree that you can usually tell when a straight man is writing a story/character involving a gay/bi woman as opposed to an actual gay/bi woman doing the writing. Though, when I read fan fic, some things a guy writes might make me chuckle but if the fic/character is well written, this won't detract from it.
- I don't think they should stop writing these characters. As a writer myself, it's an awful thing to tell yourself you'll only write characters like you or that you should only write characters like you. It's boring. I mean, we all make fun of fiction with the obvious self-insert white guy character written by a white guy (and with good reason). Writers usually like to think about and write things different from their own experience--which if fine as long as they're aware those who live those experiences in the real world are the authority on them and to take their feedback into consideration when finding ways to improve your writing.
- For Sera specifically, I wouldn't say it took away from her character much as I think she was well written in general. For those that really hated her, it's hard to say if they would have still hated her in the hypothetical situation where she was written by a lesbian (with maybe a few slight 'flavor' differences in her portrayal here and there) but had the same brash personality and same attitude towards elves. A lesbian writer might have touched a bit more on Sera's growing up in the Alienage as a lesbian in a culture with arranged heterosexual marriages. It's something I would have have been more interested in exploring, at least. But even if we add in a conversation about something like that, would that have made much of a difference for people who just hate her personality? Probably not.
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Post by garbagepailkid on Jul 1, 2017 14:09:11 GMT
Triple post, huhu. I was Interneting and I found THIS Dagna x Sera bit from Trespasser in Sera's journal (about the Qunari shenanigans) and now I'm dyiinnnngg, they are too cute. -Tell Widdle. Proper smart. She'll sort it.
-She can burn all the scary. Seen her do it. Still smooshy.I love doing Sera's romance but her and Dagna just go together so much better than Sera x Inquisitor (I'm sure this is an unpopular opinion). Just there personalities and backstory (with not fitting in with their particular cultures and how they were both really brave to leave home and set out to find a new path that would make them happier) they are just so perfect. Then there's the pranks...Dagna could help Sera take her pranks to a whole new level. |
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Post by vertigomez on Jul 2, 2017 17:47:13 GMT
Triple post, huhu. I was Interneting and I found THIS Dagna x Sera bit from Trespasser in Sera's journal (about the Qunari shenanigans) and now I'm dyiinnnngg, they are too cute. -Tell Widdle. Proper smart. She'll sort it.
-She can burn all the scary. Seen her do it. Still smooshy.I love doing Sera's romance but her and Dagna just go together so much better than Sera x Inquisitor (I'm sure this is an unpopular opinion). Just there personalities and backstory (with not fitting in with their particular cultures and how they were both really brave to leave home and set out to find a new path that would make them happier) they are just so perfect. Then there's the pranks...Dagna could help Sera take her pranks to a whole new level. I think Sera had great chemistry with my down-to-earth mercenary and my freewheeling Carta dwarf, both of whom were rejected by their original cultures, but I get what you're saying. I love her with Dagna, too. Honestly, Inky x Sera x Dagna is my Dragon Age OT3. 👀 And it makes me sad to think that Widdle is alone in worlds that I romance Sera in. ;______; |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2017 22:43:07 GMT
I just did Wicked Eyes & Wicked Hearts going for outcomes I haven't seen before (although I had no idea going for the three way truce would make Solas so happy - fucking ew), I found out Sera is the only person to approve if you stab Florianne on the spot.
I love her.
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Post by Jarovbees on Jul 3, 2017 23:44:52 GMT
I friggin' love Sera and Cadash. I first romanced her with Adaar a while back, but I didn't have Vivienne recruited, so ended up missing that bonus scene. This time, I remembered! |
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Post by vertigomez on Jul 5, 2017 3:30:46 GMT
I just did Wicked Eyes & Wicked Hearts going for outcomes I haven't seen before (although I had no idea going for the three way truce would make Solas so happy - fucking ew), I found out Sera is the only person to approve if you stab Florianne on the spot. I love her. She doesn't believe in beating around the bush.  "Bad things should happen to bad people. We find someone not so bad, maybe he'll end up not so dead." I friggin' love Sera and Cadash. I first romanced her with Adaar a while back, but I didn't have Vivienne recruited, so ended up missing that bonus scene. This time, I remembered! YAAAAAASSS! I'm leaning slightly toward Adaar as my canon, but I love, love, love how taken she is with Cadash and how ~smooshy all over~ and twee and adorable she thinks she is. It's so nice when a character says exactly what I'm thinking. Plus she can hook up with Dagna and approves if you flirt with Harding, so I think she likes them dorf women.  |
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Post by Vallerie on Jul 9, 2017 22:47:56 GMT
I just did Wicked Eyes & Wicked Hearts going for outcomes I haven't seen before (although I had no idea going for the three way truce would make Solas so happy - fucking ew), I found out Sera is the only person to approve if you stab Florianne on the spot. I love her. She doesn't believe in beating around the bush. "Bad things should happen to bad people. We find someone not so bad, maybe he'll end up not so dead." I friggin' love Sera and Cadash. I first romanced her with Adaar a while back, but I didn't have Vivienne recruited, so ended up missing that bonus scene. This time, I remembered! YAAAAAASSS! I'm leaning slightly toward Adaar as my canon, but I love, love, love how taken she is with Cadash and how ~smooshy all over~ and twee and adorable she thinks she is. It's so nice when a character says exactly what I'm thinking. Plus she can hook up with Dagna and approves if you flirt with Harding, so I think she likes them dorf women. Who doesn't?  I mean, Viviene, friggin VIVIENE asks whether you've taken her out if you "romance" Harding  Everybody loves Harding  Sorry for the OT, carry on and don't mind me |
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"Bad things should happen to bad people. We find someone not so bad, maybe he'll end up not so dead." 
