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Post by Lee on Nov 26, 2020 14:34:54 GMT
I wanted a big gay Viking adventure and it was so long and boring and nowhere near gay enough, unless you're a lesbian I guess. It doesn't make sense that they pretty much only sold it as a male Viking game...then it turns out to almost exclusively geared to lesbians. That's very odd. I mean I believe from the sounds of it you can still headcanon out a gay Viking male if you s-t-r-e-t-c-h your imagination (and plug your ears at times). Still...this game is just weirdly handled all around. Ugh, I don't know what to do at this point. Get this, support toxic CPR by getting CP2077, or give up on gaming? I know it's not that dramatic, but I swear gaming has been rough this year! That is exceptionally dumb, I'm glad I'm super meh about vikings. Aside from Origins, where I know what to expect, and replaying Odyssey, I guess I can go back to ignoring AC exists. I'm glad you are still enjoying Odyssey. It is a great game-despite all the dlc drama.  |
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Post by Andrew Mancer on Nov 26, 2020 18:40:16 GMT
Wow...I'm glad I didn't put any money into this one...that's just wrong and I would've been very, very annoyed playing through the game only to find out that spoiler. It was an interesting idea...I like the thought of a big gay Viking adventure and Odyssey was a lot of fun....but I can't stand for what they did...first with Odyssey and now this...ugh.... Guess I'll stick to Expeditions Viking instead. ...Why can't we ever get a good game with a gay protagonist? Is it too much to ask for at least *one*?  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2020 18:48:37 GMT
I’m still thoroughly enjoying the game. I knew that Eivor is a traditionally feminine name. And it’s clear that Odin has the same customized look as male Eivor . And I also know that female Eivor is canon (like how Kassandra is canon in Odyssey). So I’m taking all of my male Eivor playthrough with a non-canon grain of salt already. I’m about 70 hours in and other than a surprise kiss from Randvi (which you can soundly rebuff right away), there hasn’t been anything to take me out of my immersion. My Eivor is a big gay Viking and I’m okay with it. I’ll have to see how the end plays out to decide if I feel cheated out of the experience. Depending on how it plays, I can see it going badly. But I’m hoping that it’s done in a way that won’t completely ruin the experience. I’m definitely not quitting on the game. Also, there’s a canonically gay couple in the game and I can’t remember if it was brought up here or not yet. In Lunden, the Reeves are a gay couple. You can flirt with the Anglo one when you first meet him but it becomes pretty clear after meeting the Norse one that they are together. I thought it was going to be an insinuation so that the neckbeards wouldn’t whine, but it’s in the main quest dialogue that they are together. Eivor can encourage them or caution them to be careful since people won’t accept them, but either way, it doesn’t come off as problematic in my opinion. And Stowe even pushes back if Eivor warns them to be cautious by saying that he’ll reckon with his maker if he has to but he won’t be ashamed. So that was nice. And a little disappointing that neither Stowe nor Erke were able to do more than just a flirt line. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2020 19:11:35 GMT
I wouldn't have a problem with a canonically female Eivor like Odyssey had, but they crossed a line when claiming that both Eivors are canon and that you can have same sex romances...I mean, technically the second claim is true. You can be a lesbian, which is the same sex. But you can't be gay. And they should have told that beforehand. All the talk of same sex romances feels like a lie now, because if I understand it correctly, you can't have m/m romances, not even in an alternate-universe playthrough, since Eivor is always female, even if you choose the masculine look at the beginning. If you flirt with guys, they see a woman in you, so m/m relationships are not possible. You can just be a lesbian or a straight female. I'm glad I didn't buy this game. I feel cheated right now. |
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helo
Dashing Rogue
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Post by helo on Nov 26, 2020 22:04:34 GMT
I agree with everything you all are saying, but I enjoyed the game enough because (a) I had super low expectations about this game. Odyssey romances were basically a single line of dialog, so I wasn't expecting too much more. And (b) I don't pay close attention to lore. You can tell me I played as a female, but it didn't feel like it to me - even after being called "she" multiple times  That said, I did enjoy Odyssey more - maybe primarily for the lighter tone of the game. Alexios was a goofball and I enjoyed that a lot. |
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Post by disgustednoise on Nov 26, 2020 22:48:54 GMT
I haven't had time to play yet, but I also don't give a fuck about AC lore, so...
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Post by dgcatanisiri on Nov 26, 2020 22:49:07 GMT
Honestly, I'm not too bothered by the gender thing - The conceit of the series, by using genetic memory, saying that we are playing through the memories of an "actual" person (y'know, "actual" as in the in-universe history says they actually existed...), kinda limits them to some kind of set character. In function, it's difficult at best to say that, somehow, a character is both male and female at the same time. (Obviously, we're setting aside the non-binary potential here.)
Strictly speaking, I think they did it better than with Alexios/Kassandra, because that put the two PCs in direct conflict, which... Not like these debates aren't bloody enough when they're just a choice of who is the player choosing, then Odyssey went and made the other an actual primary antagonist.
My ultimate issue, of course, is the fact that yeah, you can see the odd reference to female Eivor slip through in a male Eivor run, and get a handful of references in the Layla material about how she received the Spear from Kassandra, regardless of who was played in Odyssey (because no carryover, I get it on a functional level). It's... I don't think they've really figured out how to manage this franchise with variable protagonists, but on this count, this feels like them making an attempt. The issue, of course, is any kind of invalidation of the "non-canon" version - with the marketing, it's obvious that they are projecting this idea of "male PC is who matters." Like game stats say that more players played Odyssey with Alexios - more players played "non-canon" than canon.
Not even touching on the issues of Ubisoft in general, given the management stuff we learned about shortly before release...
The point I'm getting at it, yeah, it sucks that if you're aware of it, you can see the signs that point to Eivor being "canonically" female, and it sucks when this is the best representation that we can find as gay men. But, really, I'm not sure how much better they could even be about this, given the constraints of the franchise itself. Not the bloodline BS, but that the experience is supposed to be reliving the memories of an actual person. It was weirdly handwaved as is for Jacob and Evie in Syndicate, and, by virtue of the twins gimmick, had to involve both protagonists, instead of just the one. It's not ideal, but... I don't know if there's really a better way.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2020 23:07:50 GMT
I don't see why it would be difficult to create an alternate universe with a non canonically male Eivor. I mean Revan in KOTOR is canonically male in the franchise, and yet if you choose to create a female Revan, she's still correctly adressed as female and Carth doesn't think he's romancing a guy when flirting with her. They could have done the same with Valhalla. I don't care if female Eivor is canon, by why not give people who want to play as male an alternative universe, even when it's just for this one single game and not for the whole franchise? Every game with a choosable protagonist has the problem, that it must work with two genders in mind. The only difference to a set protagonist is that both genders have to work in the sequel(s) as well, wehereas with a set protagonist only one gender works in the sequel(s). I'm totally fine if that's female Eivor, but that doesn't justify the gender hiccup in the main game, where they could have easily given us an alternate male protagonist who's non canon. ... In this game though, there's not even an alternative non canon male version - there's no male version of Eivor at all. And that's was bothering me. Of course you can imagine to play as a man, but when Eivor is always female no matter what body type you choose, it's nearly as unreal as thinking Gerald in the Witcher is gay, when he's clearly established as a heterosexual.
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mrjack
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Post by mrjack on Nov 27, 2020 4:38:18 GMT
I’m still thoroughly enjoying the game. I knew that Eivor is a traditionally feminine name. And it’s clear that Odin has the same customized look as male Eivor . And I also know that female Eivor is canon (like how Kassandra is canon in Odyssey). So I’m taking all of my male Eivor playthrough with a non-canon grain of salt already. I’m about 70 hours in and other than a surprise kiss from Randvi (which you can soundly rebuff right away), there hasn’t been anything to take me out of my immersion. My Eivor is a big gay Viking and I’m okay with it. I’ll have to see how the end plays out to decide if I feel cheated out of the experience. Depending on how it plays, I can see it going badly. But I’m hoping that it’s done in a way that won’t completely ruin the experience. I’m definitely not quitting on the game. Also, there’s a canonically gay couple in the game and I can’t remember if it was brought up here or not yet. In Lunden, the Reeves are a gay couple. You can flirt with the Anglo one when you first meet him but it becomes pretty clear after meeting the Norse one that they are together. I thought it was going to be an insinuation so that the neckbeards wouldn’t whine, but it’s in the main quest dialogue that they are together. Eivor can encourage them or caution them to be careful since people won’t accept them, but either way, it doesn’t come off as problematic in my opinion. And Stowe even pushes back if Eivor warns them to be cautious by saying that he’ll reckon with his maker if he has to but he won’t be ashamed. So that was nice. And a little disappointing that neither Stowe nor Erke were able to do more than just a flirt line. I don't think you will feel cheated if you are enjoying it so far. I almost feel like I ruined it for myself because I was trying to figure out what was going on with the Isu storyline and how "both" Eivor's are canon and what the deal with with the animus glitch was so I noticed things like no-one ever mentioning that Eivor is a guy and enemies were like "Get them!". If I had known upfront, I could have just actively ignored all that crap and enjoyed the romantic interactions for what they appeared to be on the surface which is what I'll try to do if I play the DLC I've already paid for. It might be something that triggers me personally too because when I was a kid and coming trying to come to terms with being gay, I didn't wish I would go to bed and wake up straight, I would wish I would wake up as a woman. Even though I don't identify as a woman, that seemed like the answer to me. All of my role models were women and they weren't particularly feminine. Magically changing my gender seemed like less of a deal to me than changing who I was as a person.
Anyway, I guess I get really touchy about any narrative that hints that men will only love you if you're a woman. Like on the one hand you have Brothir complaining to a table full of friends and family that you won't "bed him", and that's cool until you realise that he's only saying that so openly because to him and everyone else, you're a woman. And when it's two actual men in love in London, it's the only time the game acknowledges that men loving men is an issue in the Dark Ages.
I dunno. I got hangups I guess. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2020 4:55:04 GMT
I’m still thoroughly enjoying the game. I knew that Eivor is a traditionally feminine name. And it’s clear that Odin has the same customized look as male Eivor . And I also know that female Eivor is canon (like how Kassandra is canon in Odyssey). So I’m taking all of my male Eivor playthrough with a non-canon grain of salt already. I’m about 70 hours in and other than a surprise kiss from Randvi (which you can soundly rebuff right away), there hasn’t been anything to take me out of my immersion. My Eivor is a big gay Viking and I’m okay with it. I’ll have to see how the end plays out to decide if I feel cheated out of the experience. Depending on how it plays, I can see it going badly. But I’m hoping that it’s done in a way that won’t completely ruin the experience. I’m definitely not quitting on the game. Also, there’s a canonically gay couple in the game and I can’t remember if it was brought up here or not yet. In Lunden, the Reeves are a gay couple. You can flirt with the Anglo one when you first meet him but it becomes pretty clear after meeting the Norse one that they are together. I thought it was going to be an insinuation so that the neckbeards wouldn’t whine, but it’s in the main quest dialogue that they are together. Eivor can encourage them or caution them to be careful since people won’t accept them, but either way, it doesn’t come off as problematic in my opinion. And Stowe even pushes back if Eivor warns them to be cautious by saying that he’ll reckon with his maker if he has to but he won’t be ashamed. So that was nice. And a little disappointing that neither Stowe nor Erke were able to do more than just a flirt line. I don't think you will feel cheated if you are enjoying it so far. I almost feel like I ruined it for myself because I was trying to figure out what was going on with the Isu storyline and how "both" Eivor's are canon and what the deal with with the animus glitch was so I noticed things like no-one ever mentioning that Eivor is a guy and enemies were like "Get them!". If I had known upfront, I could have just actively ignored all that crap and enjoyed the romantic interactions for what they appeared to be on the surface which is what I'll try to do if I play the DLC I've already paid for. It might be something that triggers me personally too because when I was a kid and coming trying to come to terms with being gay, I didn't wish I would go to bed and wake up straight, I would wish I would wake up as a woman. Even though I don't identify as a woman, that seemed like the answer to me. All of my role models were women and they weren't particularly feminine. Magically changing my gender seemed like less of a deal to me than changing who I was as a person.
Anyway, I guess I get really touchy about any narrative that hints that men will only love you if you're a woman. Like on the one hand you have Brothir complaining to a table full of friends and family that you won't "bed him", and that's cool until you realise that he's only saying that so openly because to him and everyone else, you're a woman. And when it's two actual men in love in London, it's the only time the game acknowledges that men loving men is an issue in the Dark Ages.
I dunno. I got hangups I guess. Aw. Sorry about that trigger Jack. I can see how this could set you off. If it helps you enjoy the game more, I’ve always assumed that the ‘memories’ that Desmond and Layla experience aren’t set in stone. Like it’s their interpretation of possible experiences that the historic character could have had. So unless the game outright has dialogue that you can’t avoid and says ‘Not only was Eivor a female but everyone you encountered saw you as a guy’, I can definitely happily pretend that, while Eivor is named Varinsdottir, MY Eivor was a dude in this playthrough. Of course I haven’t played the end game yet so maybe it does make it immersion breaking. It’s still a little questionable how they approached it though. And it really demonstrates how shitty the industry is for women since the game clearly wants a lesbian protagonist (since Eivor is canonically female and Randvi is very obviously intended to be the main romance) and they have to hide her behind a non-canon presumably straight male Eivor in marketing. Unrelated, does anyone know if you can create a new Jomsvikingr on a second playthrough? Or does it automatically load up your Jomsvikingr since they are connected to your account? |
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mrjack
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Post by mrjack on Nov 27, 2020 9:54:21 GMT
Aw. Sorry about that trigger Jack. I can see how this could set you off. Don't worry about it. I got issues but I'm not the only one. I just really fell for male Eivor as a character. A cool, brave, powerful but sensitive gay guy (as far as I knew). It's kind of how straight guys gush over Geralt. I really identified with him and wanted to be him and that almost never happens with the characters I play for obvious reasons and Ubisoft had to go and undermine his very existence... But in real terms, he's still all those things and if I play again, I'll just try and block out all that noise and pretend the animus is glitching or something. Maybe I'll make a mod to remove as many references to it as possible (if I can figure it out). By the way I don't know if you can recreate your Jomsviking on a second playthrough. You probably can but it overwrites the one you have. Like, I don't think you can have two (not 100% sure) but I saved before doing it and did it a few times until I got one I kind of liked so you can definitely overwrite him or her. |
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izut
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Post by izut on Nov 27, 2020 20:38:01 GMT
Soooo... I decided to: 1) tell Randvi this isn't the time for a romance between us because I've spoiled myself with an ending where Eivor tells her she loves her and it's so beautiful!
2) not punch Basim and Sigurd even tho I'm going to do it from my next pt and over and over again because they deserve it!
I still have 2 other choices to make and I'm going to chose the loyal ones on my 1st pt - give Dag his axe and not tell Sigurd that his judgement is unfair. I'll never let Dag die without his axe because he might be an ass but he really had his clan in mind. Sigurd on the other hand went full psycho. There's no way in hell Eivor wouldn't protect her clan from his sickness so no more silence after my 1st pt. Randvi is hot for Eivor and it's clear. She even writes about it but I think it's written in an understandable way - her husband is doing whatever he's doing for years, leaving her all alone with Eivor to talk and work with. No wonder she gets hot for her/him - whatever gender you chose - Eivor is sexy and lovable  Oh, and I think I like Valhalla more than Odyssey. Kassandra will always be special in my heart but I just adore Eivor so, so much and the story seems deeper. Everything in Valhalla feels deeper. |
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benamin
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Post by benamin on Nov 30, 2020 2:26:53 GMT
Ok quick question. If I skip enter Asgard entirely, will it effect ending/character?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2020 9:47:28 GMT
Boy, did they drop the ball by not making Vili a full romance. I’m halfway through Snotinghamshire and I’m fully into him. Stayed up until 4:00am playing just to get to know him a bit. Yum.
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Post by mediocreogre on Nov 30, 2020 18:03:40 GMT
Does this game really End with the protag unearthed in North America (hinting at expansion content)?
I just wanna know if I need to start building my mental fortitude for some more weird shit about Vikings in the “new world” |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2020 19:07:27 GMT
Does this game really End with the protag unearthed in North America (hinting at expansion content)?
I just wanna know if I need to start building my mental fortitude for some more weird shit about Vikings in the “new world” There's a questline in the main game set in the "new world". |
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Post by dgcatanisiri on Nov 30, 2020 19:50:58 GMT
Eivor's body is found during the modern segments in the New England area, and there's a memory sequence that features Eivor travelling to "Vinland," encountering I believe Iroquois Native Americans, an area that is implied to be connected to the Temple that featured in AC3. |
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helo
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Post by helo on Nov 30, 2020 20:15:39 GMT
Ok quick question. If I skip enter Asgard entirely, will it effect ending/character? Probably. The ending of the "main" questline of the game (the one with the most cutscenes, etc) seems to depend on the Asgard plot. Though there's no reason you can't leave it unfinished. I finished the final territory (Hamtunscire?) after that and it was a smaller ending. |
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Post by Lee on Nov 30, 2020 21:43:53 GMT
Has the combat improved since the previous game, or is it basically the same as before?
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izut
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Post by izut on Nov 30, 2020 23:26:12 GMT
Has the combat improved since the previous game, or is it basically the same as before? Feels both the same and completely different. I like it more than Odyssey but also miss some of the half god skills. Stealth is way better, gives you a lot of opportunities. But close fighting is also superb (Vinings, duh). |
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