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Post by dgcatanisiri on Dec 11, 2020 6:37:37 GMT
... Wow, if there was one thing that could kill my enthusiasm dead in its tracks for a new Mass Effect, it ABSOLUTELY was Liara. I had more than enough of her in the original trilogy, and, while I was okay with her voice cameo in Andromeda, I have NO interest in seeing her again. i understand for those who didnt romance her she can be a bit much , i love her on romance path but when i romanced kaidan she annoyed me, like no, no you, i dont love you this time haha and its also probably that all other original charcacters are dead by this point (cheery me ), thats why they showed liara( im trying to use some logic here, and not just cause "the devs love her so much reason" which still has 90 % chance of being true lol) i know we will criticize this game to the hell and back close to release, but damn this teaser nearly brought me to tears mass effect games will always be my favorite despite many flaws, so im really just so happy they havent abandoned it and it seems that some people recognized pathfinder armor so woohoo ryder! It's not just her being "a bit much" for me - I apologize in advance if this is aggressive, it's just hit me in a tender spot.
As of Mass Effect 2, Liara is a trigger for bodily autonomy issues for me. She goes after Shepard's body, on her own, and hands it off to Cerberus, then proceeds to tell them to do what they will with it in the name of reviving them. So she orders something done to Shepard when they cannot consent to it. Combine this with trying to refuse melding with her in the first game (and the meld is explicitly compared to sex, being a vital part of reproduction for asari) and she basically badgers Shepard into melding with her, and this character repeatedly crosses my lines and boundaries - while the narrative framing puts her closer and closer in Shepard's orbit, to the point of being portrayed as effectively their right hand and best friend, even when she's not their active romance (and I'm not even starting on the amount of "player, you should totally embrace eternity with her" that gets pushed). I would keep her at arm's length AT CLOSEST, but the trilogy repeatedly tells me, in effect, "if you're not unburdening your emotions with her, you're not doing it with anyone."
This character is a gross violation of my boundaries, but the narrative doesn't even seem to realize it. I have put up with it in the trilogy, I honestly even liked the voice cameo in Andromeda. But seeing her as pretty much the first solid image of the new Mass Effect... It GETS to me.
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Post by nickclark89 on Dec 11, 2020 7:13:49 GMT
Not gonna lie, I'm hyped and that's bad I think I'm one of the few gays here that love Liara lmao just like Varric I understand how in the face they are but I like them >_< I love her friendship in the original trilogy and you can avoid her advances if you metagame a little picking the right dialogue line unlike certain asari harraser whom you have to ignore in order to not be harrased Said that, I really hope they pick the destroy ending and someway the Geth and EDI survived, fuck the three endings tbh, what were they thinking...
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Post by VFerreira93 on Dec 11, 2020 9:11:22 GMT
What a day... Mass Effect and Dragon Age news in the same day...
I'm on the verge of tears 'cause i definitely needed this to brighten my day a little bit considering everything I've been through the last 2 days...
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Post by Rouccoco on Dec 11, 2020 9:35:47 GMT
I'm playing Andromeda and despite the issues, I hoped they'd continue from there... They could do a timeskip there to have both the new galaxy lore (which is well done) and major cities. The prospect that they will mainly focus on MW, choose destroy, and maybe bring back Shep makes me super unexcited about the game.
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Post by farferello on Dec 11, 2020 10:11:26 GMT
I was vaguely interested riiiight up until I saw Liara. Though hearing the Reaper klaxon gives me a concern. Will keep my eye on it but after they left Andromeda to sink with no dlc, it's going to take something amazing for me to give a shit about another ME game. If it involves the mlilky way, they're either gonna have to hand wave your ending choice, or canonize one, or set it so far into the future that your choice at the end of the trilogy doesn't matter anymore, and then they're gonna have to never mention it ever. I refuse to play a game that possibly might remove whatever choice I had made in the trilogy. But hearing the Reaper sound... I have to wonder when it's set exactly.
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Post by Lee on Dec 11, 2020 14:26:17 GMT
... Wow, if there was one thing that could kill my enthusiasm dead in its tracks for a new Mass Effect, it ABSOLUTELY was Liara. I had more than enough of her in the original trilogy, and, while I was okay with her voice cameo in Andromeda, I have NO interest in seeing her again. It could been worse. I won't even say it though, but the other blue one.
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Post by turianlannister on Dec 11, 2020 16:09:42 GMT
... Wow, if there was one thing that could kill my enthusiasm dead in its tracks for a new Mass Effect, it ABSOLUTELY was Liara. I had more than enough of her in the original trilogy, and, while I was okay with her voice cameo in Andromeda, I have NO interest in seeing her again. i understand for those who didnt romance her she can be a bit much , i love her on romance path but when i romanced kaidan she annoyed me, like no, no you, i dont love you this time haha and its also probably that all other original charcacters are dead by this point (cheery me ), thats why they showed liara( im trying to use some logic here, and not just cause "the devs love her so much reason" which still has 90 % chance of being true lol) i know we will criticize this game to the hell and back close to release, but damn this teaser nearly brought me to tears mass effect games will always be my favorite despite many flaws, so im really just so happy they havent abandoned it and it seems that some people recognized pathfinder armor so woohoo ryder! If Liara's still alive then Grunt would still be alive as he's younger than her and krogan live longer than asari, hell maybe even Wrex is still alive, I heard he's supposed to be 800-900 years old, that would mean he could have another 600-700 years in him as Drack is 1400 years old and he reckons that he's got at least another 100 years in him
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Post by Scottphoto on Dec 11, 2020 16:26:21 GMT
I know I wasn’t thrilled our first shot was an asari in terms of character but, if there’s one character that has presence in both galaxies is Liara, with her recordings on Andromeda, so I’ll accept it for Andromeda XD. But also speaking of, her crewmates here, one of them looks like the pathfinder gear here: So, honestly while the OT stuff being here is weird, I’m all in just to see Andromeda live on in some way with this game. The idea of maybe a team from the galaxy of andromeda coming in to check the after math of their old galaxy is interesting. Mind you, the whole ending shenanigans is worrisome how they will ultimately handle it. But also makes me wonder if maybe the Mass Effect trilogy remasters have something extra on its ending to give us a glimpse of this. Many questions for sure, but I’m happy to just go back to mass effect, is my favorite gaming universe, faults and all! I updated the First Post with the new trailer, will try to keep every new update we get listed on the First Post to keep tabs on, wish I could do the same for Dragon Age but I didn't make that thread
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Post by dgcatanisiri on Dec 11, 2020 16:48:08 GMT
... Wow, if there was one thing that could kill my enthusiasm dead in its tracks for a new Mass Effect, it ABSOLUTELY was Liara. I had more than enough of her in the original trilogy, and, while I was okay with her voice cameo in Andromeda, I have NO interest in seeing her again. It could been worse. I won't even say it though, but the other blue one. See, Peebee doesn't bother me near as much as Liara - even if it takes too long to appear, there IS the option to tell her to back off. With Liara, the game turns her into Shepard's best friend and trusted right hand. So yeah, Liara is worse for me. Like I said, it's basically a bodily autonomy trigger for me, that SHE decides what should be done with Shepard when they can't consent for themselves, and nothing in the narrative ever calls her out for this, along with the forced melding in the first game, which is equivalent to having sex with a stranger in front of an audience as a mandatory plot element.
Peebee is aggressively shoved at Ryder, sure, but there are options that tell her 'no.' The trilogy just assumes that all Shepards are going to be happy and grateful that she "saved" their lives and reward her accordingly with close friendship and intimacy, while I wouldn't let her closer than arm's length AT MOST.
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Post by Lee on Dec 11, 2020 17:42:34 GMT
It could been worse. I won't even say it though, but the other blue one. See, Peebee doesn't bother me near as much as Liara - even if it takes too long to appear, there IS the option to tell her to back off. With Liara, the game turns her into Shepard's best friend and trusted right hand. So yeah, Liara is worse for me. Like I said, it's basically a bodily autonomy trigger for me, that SHE decides what should be done with Shepard when they can't consent for themselves, and nothing in the narrative ever calls her out for this, along with the forced melding in the first game, which is equivalent to having sex with a stranger in front of an audience as a mandatory plot element.
Peebee is aggressively shoved at Ryder, sure, but there are options that tell her 'no.' The trilogy just assumes that all Shepards are going to be happy and grateful that she "saved" their lives and reward her accordingly with close friendship and intimacy, while I wouldn't let her closer than arm's length AT MOST.
I totally agree with your points. I honestly wrote that before I saw your second post. I should have deleted probably. Anywho, I admit I cringed so hard that it actually hurt when I saw her. I didn't say anything cause I know I have been poo pooing the party lately.
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izut
The Beastmaster
Posts: 570
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Post by izut on Dec 11, 2020 22:39:29 GMT
As of Mass Effect 2, Liara is a trigger for bodily autonomy issues for me. She goes after Shepard's body, on her own, and hands it off to Cerberus, then proceeds to tell them to do what they will with it in the name of reviving them. So she orders something done to Shepard when they cannot consent to it. To be fair, if she didn't do it Shepard would've end up in Collectors hands and they'd do real damage to them and all those who ever loved them so... yeah... As much as I see it as an evil move (lesser evil is still evil), I understand it and am also happy that Liara knew what to do and had balls to do it. Someone else might've gotten it wrong.and the meld is explicitly compared to sex, being a vital part of reproduction for asari Meld is so much more than sex. Sex is just one of the things it can be used to. Mothers teach their daughters about Asari history via melds too. Asari can share any kind of thoughts, knowledge, feelings and emotions via meld. It can be used to help others, like in Shepard's case when they were trying to decode the beacon's messages. And it can literally fry someone's brain too which Morinth proved a couple of times. I think I'm one of the few gays here that love Liara lmao just like Varric I understand how in the face they are but I like them >_< I love her friendship in the original trilogy and you can avoid her advances if you metagame a little picking the right dialogue I really hope they pick the destroy ending and someway the Geth and EDI survived, fuck the three endings tbh, what were they thinking... Geth and Edi can be repaired. If they can repair Mass Relays then they for sure can fix anything else I'm playing Andromeda and despite the issues, I hoped they'd continue from there... They could do a timeskip there to have both the new galaxy lore (which is well done) and major cities. The prospect that they will mainly focus on MW, choose destroy, and maybe bring back Shep makes me super unexcited about the game. Well, they can also start in MW and go to Andromeda. We know why Alec chose to go to Andromeda. What if Liara does the same? What if she's searching for Shepard and either finds them in such critical condition that current MW won't be able to save them and or doesn't find them but finds out that they were taken against their will to Andromeda, unconscious? I thikn one of the datapads does hint that Kett could've visited MW. We don't really know their technology, what if they're able to travel between the galaxies way faster and last arks new about it? Or there were more arks we didn't know about and it was decided they needs the biggest hero in the galaxy out there now? Shepard's team could and most likely would go after them.
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Post by Rouccoco on Dec 12, 2020 16:20:48 GMT
Or there were more arks we didn't know about and it was decided they needs the biggest hero in the galaxy out there now? Shepard's team could and most likely would go after them. That's exactly what I don't want. My problem isn't the story explanation, ME is far from being hard sci-fi, they can use any explanation they want. But in a series that spans 2 galaxies and features over a dozen races, why do we have to keep recycling the same handful of characters? Both DA and ME have characters they feel they need to keep bringing back, but DA somehow manages to rotate protagonists and companions. Unlike DA, where by the time DA4 comes out we'll be left with only 3 or 4 unseen countries, ME has limitless possibilities. If ME5 will just be "Liara, Garrus, Wrex, and Tali are back, Shep is again the only competent person in the universe" then I'll be disappointed. MEA improved the series in a lot of places. The new protagonist, companions, races, or galaxy weren't the problem. It had too many launch bugs and dumb game design choices (plus the m/m situation). But it finally had a protagonist that from the very start could be a gay man and I could finally make a black character, since they designed and tested the lighting for anyone other than the white default. I don't want to regress from that.
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izut
The Beastmaster
Posts: 570
Likes: 1,451
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Post by izut on Dec 12, 2020 16:32:03 GMT
That's exactly what I don't want. My problem isn't the story explanation, ME is far from being hard sci-fi, they can use any explanation they want. But in a series that spans 2 galaxies and features over a dozen races, why do we have to keep recycling the same handful of characters? Both DA and ME have characters they feel they need to keep bringing back, but DA somehow manages to rotate protagonists and companions. I don't think they'l make Shepard a protagonist again if they bring them back at all. A side character, a mentor, human council, someone to save (like Ryders' mom) because our galaxy is in no shape to do that - these are my most possible scenarios. There's also a possibility that some reapers survived and went after arks to Andromeda because it's highly unlikely the destroying signal could reach the dark space. If that happened, Shepard would be the only one knowing how to really stop them since they're the only ones that faced the starbrat and Leviathans. Like you said, there're plenty of possibilities in this universe. As for the protagonist, I'm pretty sure we'll once again be one of the twins.
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Post by Scottphoto on Dec 12, 2020 19:05:10 GMT
I really wish/hope we could continue the Ryders because Andromeda is basically a prologue for them, like they are just getting started to learn and know the galaxy, a sequel would be the perfect time for a more matured twins having to deal with consequences of their actions, unstability in the galaxy, etc. However, I’m beginning to think it will be a new protagonist instead, but we shall see.
My preference would be: Ryder > new character > Shepard
And ultimately Shepard has way too much baggage of choices so I doubt they would make you play him/her. I can see Shepard in a more Hawke Inquisition situation if any, But yeah, I’m expecting disappointment just so I can hope to be surprised later XD.
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Post by mediocreogre on Dec 12, 2020 19:28:51 GMT
Unfortunately I think mass effect is kind of in the place Star Wars was after the prequels. To a lot of people the prequels were bad not because of poor writing, acting direction, poor use of green screen and basic shot composition, but because Luke Skywalker wasn’t in it. And as much as I despise the Disney trilogy, what they did has now become the commercially “safe” way to do a relaunch. And the message they took away from the sequel controversy was basically “Last Jedi Bad” instead of “JJ Abrams can’t set up a trilogy and you need a plan”.
So I think it is a safe bet BioWare is looking at the Star Wars sequel trilogy (which for most of Andromeda’s production hadn’t happened) and thinking that Andromeda stumbled not because of an inexperienced team and creative confusion but like a lot of the YouTube reviewers said which was “it’s not Mass Effect without Shepard!” So I think the Force Awakens might be the best place to look for how this new chapter will go... but hopefully not as half-assed. I imagine we’ll be a new protag in a somewhat different setting but with similarities and Shepard will be Luke.
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Post by farferello on Dec 12, 2020 20:56:45 GMT
I would much prefer a game with Ryder again, and if we can't have that, a new protagonist. As much as I loved Shepard, they've had three games, they've had their time and have a shit ton of baggage that they'd bring with them and trying to force them into a new game would be difficult, like when and how would they even set the game to involve them?
I'd much rather continue with Ryder, see how things go with everything that happened near the end of the game, we lost out on so much when they decided to not do any dlc for the game. If they'd rather burn Andromeda and salt its ashes then I'd rather a new character instead of Shepard, though if you move on from Ryder idk where you'd set the game for it to make any real sense. You can't really do anything from the end of the trilogy to the time skip of Andromeda because you'd have to canonize an ending or write three separate instances of the game to account for it (and then possibly more considering you can get 'good' and 'bad' versions of the endings depending on your Alliance readiness thing.)
So then you either have to set it in Ryder's timeline but not have Ryder deal with stuff, or somehow do a massive time skip again - though considering the trailer had the Reaper klaxon I question what they could do if the Reapers are still around.
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Post by mediocreogre on Dec 12, 2020 21:53:48 GMT
I think we might be taking it too literally. The voice over was clips from real life about theories on aliens and then ending with the arrival of the reapers (the arc of human space history in universe). The camera pans through the setting of Mass Effect as is: a devastated Milky Way and a distant Andromeda, and the “hope” of Liara finding an N7 piece, not even a name tag saying “Shepard” and then the vague “Mass Effect Will Continue”.
To me that reads as “this is the setting as it is after 4 games and we are unsure with who or where we go from here but there’s still options”
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Post by dgcatanisiri on Dec 12, 2020 22:34:12 GMT
I think we might be taking it too literally. The voice over was clips from real life about theories on aliens and then ending with the arrival of the reapers (the arc of human space history in universe). The camera pans through the setting of Mass Effect as is: a devastated Milky Way and a distant Andromeda, and the “hope” of Liara finding an N7 piece, not even a name tag saying “Shepard” and then the vague “Mass Effect Will Continue”. To me that reads as “this is the setting as it is after 4 games and we are unsure with who or where we go from here but there’s still options” I would hope that would be it. Thing is, based on having a trailer that includes a cameo from Liara, it creates certain ideas in the minds of fans - not just "showing the history and looking to the future," but going up to "this is what we're doing going forward." As in "Liara will be part of this again." After all, couldn't they have shown, say, the Tempest, or the Nexus, or Meridian, something evocative for something from Andromeda, rather than holding on Liara recovering a piece of N7 armor? Or like an N7 helmet that turns into the Pathfinder helmet, be more symbolic of it as a handover, if their intent was to be saying "this is the history of humanity reaching for the stars," show that they're following up on ANDROMEDA, rather than giving the impression of only just the trilogy?
I figure that they have to have a pretty solid idea of what the next Mass Effect game is going to turn into, at the least have the building blocks ready to assemble - if they're showing something like this, then they're actively working on it. And while things like the first trailers for Andromeda or Inquisition might have been ambiguous and vague... Like, the Inquisition trailer had Varric, Cassandra, and Morrigan appear, which they did in the final game, and in major roles. And with people looking close at that image of Liara, noting that she looks like she's aged - say, aged about six hundred years or so, considering the length of asari lifetimes, it DOES read very easily that they're trying to say Liara will appear. (And, again, see above for my opinion of that...)
Which honestly just feels like they're giving in to the voices of those who said that "Shepard IS Mass Effect!" And that's... just a disservice to Ryder and the gang. Like I said on Tumblr, revisiting any of the old crew from the Normandy... Yeah, sure, I do love them and won't exactly turn down revisiting them, but if anyone deserves a coda, it's the Tempest crew.
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Post by mediocreogre on Dec 13, 2020 1:27:27 GMT
I agree in some ways it begs to be taken literally as like a “dread wolf rises mural” video to decode their plans but I poured through what BioWare themselves were saying, and it felt more like, “we’re in the early stages of development and nothing is for sure 100% besides that this video is intentional” but they never said the intent is paint a picture of the next game and more “everything in the video was put there by us”. It was all pretty hedging their bets corporate jumbo jumbo.
But I think it’s a safe bet they are going to merge the two settings somehow, but we kinda knew that with what little hints they left in MEA of the initiative having a secret motive.
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Post by turianlannister on Dec 15, 2020 0:37:05 GMT
I've been reading through the BSN thread on the trailer, someone said there's a mention of ark six being on the way which they said is a reference to the quarian ark but the quarian ark was the fifth ark not the sixth, the Nexus was never referred to as an ark so my theory is that's what ties the milky way and andromeda
There's also some weirdo in the thread who wants Liara to become pregnant with Shepard's kid even if Shepard didn't romance her
I hope Liara is like Morrigan in DAI, was prominent in the trailer but didn't play a big part in the game
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