mrslothy
The Beastmaster
Elcor in the Fade
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Post by mrslothy on May 17, 2017 17:14:28 GMT
VFerreira93 I just read this on the Nordic Games official forums from one of the developers about ELEX: Quote Originally Posted by Hopeful9
Will you be able to recruit followers? I really like having companions. I did not see any in the demos.
Yes! There will be different companions. They will have their own background, strengths, missions and opinion. If they join you, you can find them at your "homebase" and take one of them with you, if you want to. They will also respond to your behaviour and choices and you can have real good friends, a romance or they can leave you, in the end.Maybe that includes m/m? that is really nice but i'm very wary when some dev says "romance". it usually ends up being two extra lines written by a random intern and it only serves to put in buzzword to make fans preorder. i still remember "romances" from divinity original sin. they said there will be relationships and while technically that was not untrue, it was shallow AF and only got acknowledged in the ending slides. |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 17:16:26 GMT
I heard that PoE2 will have romances. Maybe because Avellone is no longer working on it.  I like the guy and respect that he is firm in his beliefs in what should be in games, but if consumers want romances, he has to accommodate. I watched through Banner Saga 1 and 2 recently which is an indie game by former Bioware employees. It is pretty basic and is mostly a survival simulator interspersed with combat, but it was surprisingly addictive. The story and characters were pretty good and drew me in quickly. There is no LGBT content and barely any real romance, but the writing for the characters was decent and I was invested in the story. I don't particularly care about graphics if the story is good, so I don't mind having the best writing go to indies. Especially since AAA development seems to be trending toward less plot and more action and MP. It's kind of like when television started churning out reality TV; they save on writers' salaries and set design and just film stupid people wanting to be famous. MP is probably cheaper to maintain and gets more constant microtransactions for developers. i think no one on the obsidian team is keen on the romances, rpgcodex used to harp about it constantly. they usually say it can't be done right and similar flimsy bullshit (as if other complex social and politic interactions are so true to life and done incredibly well. it's a game man, stylize it just like you do everything else, but i suspect its more using the public that is con-rimance to excuse devoting less resources to it). poe2 will have relationship mechanics (they refused to say romances so there's that) which implies all kind of potential relationships but nothing really concrete. i think it's their safe-guard to keep things very vague both in relation to public (which is a bit polarized) and in game execution. i didn't back them this time and will rather wait to see what they do. romances are quite an important part of rpg games for me IF they cater to players nad want to be some kind of power fantasy. in that case i want to be catered to on the other hand, i'm still holding off my first playthrough of torment-tides of numenera. it made me really happy to see today's update and additions and i hope it will not be disappointing. i want at least one new wave indie rpg that will belong in my "classic" gaming section Good to know. I haven't played PoE anyway, my computer is too old. So I'm not too invested, will just be watching YT playthroughs of 2. I wouldn't mind if they don't do any romances but still develop the companions and have a relationship with the PC. I don't want the characters to be static. It's just that usually we only get LGBT characters if there's also a romance involved, because apparently gay people only want romances in a game. I think that barbarian character in the PoE expansion is a lesbian, though, right? I would be more than okay if we continued to have queer characters in prominent roles who weren't romanceable. That might actually be better so that it doesn't appear as though queer people only exist to have sex with the PC. |
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mrjack
The Beastmaster
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Post by mrjack on May 17, 2017 17:34:01 GMT
VFerreira93 I just read this on the Nordic Games official forums from one of the developers about ELEX: Quote Originally Posted by Hopeful9
Will you be able to recruit followers? I really like having companions. I did not see any in the demos.
Yes! There will be different companions. They will have their own background, strengths, missions and opinion. If they join you, you can find them at your "homebase" and take one of them with you, if you want to. They will also respond to your behaviour and choices and you can have real good friends, a romance or they can leave you, in the end.Maybe that includes m/m? that is really nice but i'm very wary when some dev says "romance". it usually ends up being two extra lines written by a random intern and it only serves to put in buzzword to make fans preorder. i still remember "romances" from divinity original sin. they said there will be relationships and while technically that was not untrue, it was shallow AF and only got acknowledged in the ending slides. I'll wait to see some footage of the companions to get some idea of how in-depth any sort of relationship can be (including friendships) but tbh, it'll be great to play a game where I can drag my boyfriend along into battle again. I need the characters to be deep (so not like Skyrim) but I don't necessarily need the romance to be deep. I have different standards for AA games compared to AAA games as well. I also give companies a lot of leeway if it's their first time including m/m content so there's that too for me to take into consideration. |
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mrslothy
The Beastmaster
Elcor in the Fade
Posts: 639
Likes: 2,006
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Post by mrslothy on May 17, 2017 17:44:00 GMT
i think no one on the obsidian team is keen on the romances, rpgcodex used to harp about it constantly. they usually say it can't be done right and similar flimsy bullshit (as if other complex social and politic interactions are so true to life and done incredibly well. it's a game man, stylize it just like you do everything else, but i suspect its more using the public that is con-rimance to excuse devoting less resources to it). poe2 will have relationship mechanics (they refused to say romances so there's that) which implies all kind of potential relationships but nothing really concrete. i think it's their safe-guard to keep things very vague both in relation to public (which is a bit polarized) and in game execution. i didn't back them this time and will rather wait to see what they do. romances are quite an important part of rpg games for me IF they cater to players nad want to be some kind of power fantasy. in that case i want to be catered to on the other hand, i'm still holding off my first playthrough of torment-tides of numenera. it made me really happy to see today's update and additions and i hope it will not be disappointing. i want at least one new wave indie rpg that will belong in my "classic" gaming section Good to know. I haven't played PoE anyway, my computer is too old. So I'm not too invested, will just be watching YT playthroughs of 2. I wouldn't mind if they don't do any romances but still develop the companions and have a relationship with the PC. I don't want the characters to be static. It's just that usually we only get LGBT characters if there's also a romance involved, because apparently gay people only want romances in a game. I think that barbarian character in the PoE expansion is a lesbian, though, right? I would be more than okay if we continued to have queer characters in prominent roles who weren't romanceable. That might actually be better so that it doesn't appear as though queer people only exist to have sex with the PC. agreed outside of romances it's great to see queer companions and people. if i'm not mistaken, one of companions in Torment tides of numenera is gay. and yea, the barbarian was a lesbian in expansion for poe (never got around to play it) |
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Post by gaycaravaggio on May 17, 2017 21:41:21 GMT
I meant more that Starfield might not have a romance system in general. But I think Bethesda is aware by now that it's a popular mechanic. I still hate them for deleting FO NV's gay-perks (cherchez la femme/confirmed bachelor) but leaving the hetero ladykiller/black widow in.. That shit made me salty because they just didnt code any restriction in while cementing at least heterosexuality as normal nostalgic wank into the game.. does that make sense? Im angry, i sometimes dont. Nah, you articulated how I feel about that pretty well. 1950s heteronormative-wife-stays-in-the-kitchen nostalgia is universially awful. |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 22:56:21 GMT
It could or it could be used as justification for not trying to have LGBT content featured in the first place because they're afraid of being turned on by both the homophobic demographic and, if they screw up, the LGBT demographic.  "We don't want to end up like Bioware, guys! They catered to the homos and they all betrayed them when they didn't get what they want." Well hopefully they look at it in context. It's fairly obvious why so many people were upset. People stating how this was moving backwards and being so personally hurt over it should IMO be clear to other developers that it was a betrayal of trust and lack of attention which caused the backlash, not because LGBT fans will yell over anything. I would think the outcry would demonstrate that there is a marketable base of consumers who actively want LGBT content and it influences their purchasing decisions. Even if it's just FO4's playersexual approach to characters it's an easy enough and cheap way of increasing the consumer base. I don't know about that... It really depends on the kind of media exposure the issue got, which, frankly, is one reason some players were discontent with #MakeJaalBi becoming a trending hashtag, since the issue is larger than that. I don't know how many articles were written about it, actual articles in the gaming media and not blog posts from upset gamers. Of the two I actually do know of, only the Kotaku piece focused on the entire issue as an actual problem, whereas the other one was essentially "gay players didn't get their gay alien." This is why I was so supportive of the Kotaku piece when I heard it was being written. Regardless of what anyone thinks of Kotaku, the problem needed that kind of exposure. It's fairly obvious to us here on these forums, and for the players impacted by it, but I don't know how much of that is seen or understood by the industry as a reason for LGBT player dissatisfaction. |
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Post by VFerreira93 on May 17, 2017 23:05:41 GMT
Well hopefully they look at it in context. It's fairly obvious why so many people were upset. People stating how this was moving backwards and being so personally hurt over it should IMO be clear to other developers that it was a betrayal of trust and lack of attention which caused the backlash, not because LGBT fans will yell over anything. I would think the outcry would demonstrate that there is a marketable base of consumers who actively want LGBT content and it influences their purchasing decisions. Even if it's just FO4's playersexual approach to characters it's an easy enough and cheap way of increasing the consumer base. I don't know about that... It really depends on the kind of media exposure the issue got, which, frankly, is one reason some players were discontent with #MakeJaalBi becoming a trending hashtag, since the issue is larger than that. I don't know how many articles were written about it, actual articles in the gaming media and not blog posts from upset gamers. Of the two I actually do know of, only the Kotaku piece focused on the entire issue as an actual problem, whereas the other one was essentially "gay players didn't get their gay alien." This is why I was so supportive of the Kotaku piece when I heard it was being written. Regardless of what anyone thinks of Kotaku, the problem needed that kind of exposure. It's fairly obvious to us here on these forums, and for the players impacted by it, but I don't know how much of that is seen or understood by the industry as a reason for LGBT player dissatisfaction. Many of us even sent to the person who wrote that Kotaku article as many info as we possibly could to help her with sources and such. |
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Ark
The Beastmaster
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Post by Ark on May 17, 2017 23:26:23 GMT
About Pillars of Eternity 2 romances: I definitely would not get your hopes up about m/m content. They're already using the "we wont be using a checklist, it has to make sense" argument. Which is a shame, cause Eder is freakin adorable.  |
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Post by turianlannister on May 18, 2017 1:51:37 GMT
Maybe a DLC hint? Not sure, but it's something. I hope there was already enough works for at least one dlc to send off the game. If you're worried that she might not be available for Cora because she's now in the UK, London is one of the places Bioware has a recording studio iirc |
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mrjack
The Beastmaster
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Post by mrjack on May 18, 2017 5:50:45 GMT
About Pillars of Eternity 2 romances: I definitely would not get your hopes up about m/m content. They're already using the "we wont be using a checklist, it has to make sense" argument. Blech... I'm not really an isometric fan so no big loss for me but this is something straight people say to justify not including gay people unless they are a walking,talking trope/harmful stereotype. If this truly happened organically then there would be as many queer characters in games as there are in real life and they would be just as varied as straight people. Clearly this is not the case. |
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Post by Scottphoto on May 18, 2017 6:06:15 GMT
I hope there was already enough works for at least one dlc to send off the game. If you're worried that she might not be available for Cora because she's now in the UK, London is one of the places Bioware has a recording studio iirc oh im not worried because of the tweet, the tweet is hope that she is indeed doing more stuff. I just hope there was enough work for at least one dlc and don't cancel their dlc plans like "sources" of kotaku seem to hint. |
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mrslothy
The Beastmaster
Elcor in the Fade
Posts: 639
Likes: 2,006
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Post by mrslothy on May 18, 2017 7:28:34 GMT
I don't know about that... It really depends on the kind of media exposure the issue got, which, frankly, is one reason some players were discontent with #MakeJaalBi becoming a trending hashtag, since the issue is larger than that. I don't know how many articles were written about it, actual articles in the gaming media and not blog posts from upset gamers. Of the two I actually do know of, only the Kotaku piece focused on the entire issue as an actual problem, whereas the other one was essentially "gay players didn't get their gay alien." This is why I was so supportive of the Kotaku piece when I heard it was being written. Regardless of what anyone thinks of Kotaku, the problem needed that kind of exposure. It's fairly obvious to us here on these forums, and for the players impacted by it, but I don't know how much of that is seen or understood by the industry as a reason for LGBT player dissatisfaction. Many of us even sent to the person who wrote that Kotaku article as many info as we possibly could to help her with sources and such. it was commendable that she was one of the only people who actually DID THEIR FUCKING RESEARCH before writing about the issue and reaching out to people. other articles were indeed just a general summary that almost completely missed the issue About Pillars of Eternity 2 romances: I definitely would not get your hopes up about m/m content. They're already using the "we wont be using a checklist, it has to make sense" argument. Which is a shame, cause Eder is freakin adorable. it is simply sad how much this is predictable. i just makes you learn to expect nothing, which might not be a bad life lesson. if we're talking just about the romances, i would never back a game if the developer doesn't explicitly state "we will include lgbt characters and romances, we believe in diversity, period". for one, romances demand writing resource and most devs are unwilling to invest into quality there, realistically, lgbt romances are even more niche and are thus risky investment. devs have to go out of their way to include it. that is the reason i backed "project resurgence" on kickstarter, even if it remains to be seen if the game will be any good at all  it was just so refreshig to see- "yes, we will do romances, it's important to many players" and "yes, we will do lgbt romances, we believe in diversity and representation". |
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Post by phantomrachie on May 18, 2017 8:03:03 GMT
So, guys, I'm not saying that this conversation about the m/m romances or lack of them isn't important, but it's not really MEA specific anymore. Perhaps it would be better to open a new thread to have this discussion.
At the moment I'd feel like I was butting in if I posted any other comment about MEA. I don't want to derail this conversation for you.
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Post by Lee on May 18, 2017 8:09:35 GMT
So, guys, I'm not saying that this conversation about the m/m romances or lack of them isn't important, but it's not really MEA specific anymore. Perhaps it would be better to open a new thread to have this discussion. At the moment I'd feel like I was butting in if I posted any other comment about MEA. I don't want to derail this conversation for you. Don't feel like you are butting in. You are welcome to bring up any Andromeda related topic you like, and I'm sure many of the posters will enjoy talking about those things too. However, the M/M situation is not likely to go away as long as the game is in the shape it is. |
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Post by phantomrachie on May 18, 2017 8:20:35 GMT
So, guys, I'm not saying that this conversation about the m/m romances or lack of them isn't important, but it's not really MEA specific anymore. Perhaps it would be better to open a new thread to have this discussion. At the moment I'd feel like I was butting in if I posted any other comment about MEA. I don't want to derail this conversation for you. Don't feel like you are butting in. You are welcome to bring up any Andromeda related topic you like, and I'm sure many of the posters will enjoy talking about those things too. However, the M/M situation is not likely to go away as long as the game is in the shape it is. And I 100% get that, it's just that this conversation has gotten so specific and people care so much about it I don't want people to feel like I'm trying to pull the conversation away by posting something else about the game. M/M 'mancers get short changed enough in gaming without feeling like their issues are being sidelined by other fans. I'll stick to the BSN for my MEA thoughts  |
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Post by Lee on May 18, 2017 8:28:09 GMT
Don't feel like you are butting in. You are welcome to bring up any Andromeda related topic you like, and I'm sure many of the posters will enjoy talking about those things too. However, the M/M situation is not likely to go away as long as the game is in the shape it is. And I 100% get that, it's just that this conversation has gotten so specific and people care so much about it I don't want people to feel like I'm trying to pull the conversation away by posting something else about the game. M/M 'mancers get short changed enough in gaming without feeling like their issues are being sidelined by other fans. I'll stick to the BSN for my MEA thoughts I am uncertain what topics you want to discuss even, so I am limited in the advice I could give. However, if a topic is important enough to you-you could always start a new thread for that subject. We don't have a lot of themed topics at this point. Again though, I don't think anyone would take it personally at all if you want to discuss other things. |
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Post by gimolas on May 18, 2017 8:28:46 GMT
Don't feel like you are butting in. You are welcome to bring up any Andromeda related topic you like, and I'm sure many of the posters will enjoy talking about those things too. However, the M/M situation is not likely to go away as long as the game is in the shape it is. And I 100% get that, it's just that this conversation has gotten so specific and people care so much about it I don't want people to feel like I'm trying to pull the conversation away by posting something else about the game. M/M 'mancers get short changed enough in gaming without feeling like their issues are being sidelined by other fans. I'll stick to the BSN for my MEA thoughts Since this is a pretty general discussion thread, it's totally fine and normal for multiple different conversations to be happening at once. Feel free to post about any MEA-related stuff you want in here, you won't be derailing or sidelining anything! |
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mrslothy
The Beastmaster
Elcor in the Fade
Posts: 639
Likes: 2,006
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Post by mrslothy on May 18, 2017 8:50:02 GMT
So, guys, I'm not saying that this conversation about the m/m romances or lack of them isn't important, but it's not really MEA specific anymore. Perhaps it would be better to open a new thread to have this discussion. At the moment I'd feel like I was butting in if I posted any other comment about MEA. I don't want to derail this conversation for you. post whatever you like, nothing's wrong with trying to start a new conversation strand in a thread. this happens all the time and people here are not (yet  ) judgemental about that |
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Post by Lee on May 18, 2017 8:55:09 GMT
So, guys, I'm not saying that this conversation about the m/m romances or lack of them isn't important, but it's not really MEA specific anymore. Perhaps it would be better to open a new thread to have this discussion. At the moment I'd feel like I was butting in if I posted any other comment about MEA. I don't want to derail this conversation for you. post whatever you like, nothing's wrong with trying to start a new conversation strand in a thread. this happens all the time and people here are not (yet ) judgemental about that Are you judging us for not being judgmental enough? If I say judge enough will it sound judgmental? Judddgggeeey.. So what do you all want to see in this mythical romance outfit we are getting? I'm still hoping for underoos for scott with his ass hanging out. But pretty sure that won't come to pass. So maybe at least silk shorts and a shirt that's unbuttoned? |
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2017 9:07:12 GMT
Don't feel like you are butting in. You are welcome to bring up any Andromeda related topic you like, and I'm sure many of the posters will enjoy talking about those things too. However, the M/M situation is not likely to go away as long as the game is in the shape it is. And I 100% get that, it's just that this conversation has gotten so specific and people care so much about it I don't want people to feel like I'm trying to pull the conversation away by posting something else about the game. M/M 'mancers get short changed enough in gaming without feeling like their issues are being sidelined by other fans. I'll stick to the BSN for my MEA thoughts Been to the BSN romance thread lately? That gets derailed by all sorts of weird things. XD I've also seen multiple groups have different conversations around each other. I don't think anyone really cares. /hi-five! [edit] Heck, we recently had a purposeful derailment (to move away from another topic) that had people talking about whether Anders was right/wrong. |
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I like the guy and respect that he is firm in his beliefs in what should be in games, but if consumers want romances, he has to accommodate. 
it was just so refreshig to see- "yes, we will do romances, it's important to many players" and "yes, we will do lgbt romances, we believe in diversity and representation".
) judgemental about that
