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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2018 17:43:20 GMT
That MaleShep/James unused flirting dialogues sounds awesome, thank you for update Rondeeno  |
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Post by dgcatanisiri on Apr 9, 2018 18:51:12 GMT
Yeah, you can’t convince me that the ‘you don’t think I like getting dirty?’ remark when Shepard and James talk at Purgatory isn’t left over from whatever iteration of the game script had James as a romance option.
Cutting that was a crime, for the record.
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Post by Red Fox on Apr 9, 2018 19:52:20 GMT
Yeah, you can’t convince me that the ‘you don’t think I like getting dirty?’ remark when Shepard and James talk at Purgatory isn’t left over from whatever iteration of the game script had James as a romance option. Cutting that was a crime, for the record. It's fascinating to me learning about all this cut content. I didn't realize it was that bad. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2018 8:19:41 GMT
Yeah, you can’t convince me that the ‘you don’t think I like getting dirty?’ remark when Shepard and James talk at Purgatory isn’t left over from whatever iteration of the game script had James as a romance option. Cutting that was a crime, for the record. Similar to the comment about Shepard's bed when James comes to talk about becoming an N7. |
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Post by Lee on Apr 10, 2018 15:54:07 GMT
ugh, what kills me is they added James as an option for females in Citadel, but they did it such an offensive gross way that no one would do it (unless they are really into being creepy pushy bosses that sexually harass those working under them)  |
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Post by Red Fox on Apr 10, 2018 15:56:59 GMT
ugh, what kills me is they added James as an option for females in Citadel, but they did it such an offensive gross way that no one would do it (unless they are really into being creepy pushy bosses that sexually harass those working under them) There is a fetish for everything. |
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Post by dgcatanisiri on Apr 10, 2018 22:10:54 GMT
ugh, what kills me is they added James as an option for females in Citadel, but they did it such an offensive gross way that no one would do it (unless they are really into being creepy pushy bosses that sexually harass those working under them) The added "bonus" to the 'only for femShep' part of that is that, after the main game had James be really cool with Cortez - "You know you love the show, Esteban" - they try and hit James with the "no homo, bro" bat with some of his comments, like how he's "all about the ladies" and his pointed "without you" to Steve about trying out the hot tub. Of course, it only makes him come across as 'the lad doth protest too much,' but GAH! It's like they heard that the gay players responded well to him as much as (if not more) than the female players did, so they set out to try and make certain the gays understand he's not "one of them." (Yes, you're supposed to read that with as much derision as possible.) Seriously, the Mass Effect team has ALWAYS had a lot of really bad issues with homophobia. Andromeda just brought it all into focus that it's not just one or two members, it's the overall atmosphere surrounding these games, and SOMETHING desperately needs changing. |
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Post by Lee on Apr 10, 2018 22:15:44 GMT
ugh, what kills me is they added James as an option for females in Citadel, but they did it such an offensive gross way that no one would do it (unless they are really into being creepy pushy bosses that sexually harass those working under them) The added "bonus" to the 'only for femShep' part of that is that, after the main game had James be really cool with Cortez - "You know you love the show, Esteban" - they try and hit James with the "no homo, bro" bat with some of his comments, like how he's "all about the ladies" and his pointed "without you" to Steve about trying out the hot tub. Of course, it only makes him come across as 'the lad doth protest too much,' but GAH! It's like they heard that the gay players responded well to him as much as (if not more) than the female players did, so they set out to try and make certain the gays understand he's not "one of them." (Yes, you're supposed to read that with as much derision as possible.) Seriously, the Mass Effect team has ALWAYS had a lot of really bad issues with homophobia. Andromeda just brought it all into focus that it's not just one or two members, it's the overall atmosphere surrounding these games, and SOMETHING desperately needs changing. The sad part is they were probably afraid FPJ would be offended by his voice being used in a gay romance, cut to a year (or so) later when he is super thrilled to do the Iron Bull romance for male inquisitors. So clearly if that was their thought process they were just not well informed. |
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Post by Sir Drell on Apr 10, 2018 22:25:52 GMT
ugh, what kills me is they added James as an option for females in Citadel, but they did it such an offensive gross way that no one would do it (unless they are really into being creepy pushy bosses that sexually harass those working under them) The added "bonus" to the 'only for femShep' part of that is that, after the main game had James be really cool with Cortez - "You know you love the show, Esteban" - they try and hit James with the "no homo, bro" bat with some of his comments, like how he's "all about the ladies" and his pointed "without you" to Steve about trying out the hot tub. Of course, it only makes him come across as 'the lad doth protest too much,' but GAH! It's like they heard that the gay players responded well to him as much as (if not more) than the female players did, so they set out to try and make certain the gays understand he's not "one of them." (Yes, you're supposed to read that with as much derision as possible.) Seriously, the Mass Effect team has ALWAYS had a lot of really bad issues with homophobia. Andromeda just brought it all into focus that it's not just one or two members, it's the overall atmosphere surrounding these games, and SOMETHING desperately needs changing. It's become clear to me there was some level of institutional homophobia in the old team and the newer team for MEA. |
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Post by Beefy Titans on Apr 10, 2018 23:08:02 GMT
I finally start my ME run again with rondeeno romance mod. I finished Eden Prime last night and I love the mod already. When my Shepard woke up and had the conversation, I love how he and Kaidan talked.  |
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Post by Lee on Apr 10, 2018 23:52:59 GMT
I finally start my ME run again with rondeeno romance mod. I finished Eden Prime last night and I love the mod already. When my Shepard woke up and had the conversation, I love how he and Kaidan talked.  Ah, you installed the extra mod for the beam switch?  That was totally worth the extra effort for me! I was thrilled by that change! I'm always thirsty for every bit of Kaidan content I can get after all! |
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Post by Red Fox on Apr 11, 2018 1:56:40 GMT
I think Biowares homophobia was clear with how they cut out almost all of the bi romances in the OT. It seems damn near everyone was originally bi.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2018 3:44:45 GMT
I think Biowares homophobia was clear with how they cut out almost all of the bi romances in the OT. It seems damn near everyone was originally bi. Are you sure? It's a bit unclear. I had heard somewhere that in Germany there was a Kaidan romance. However, when people actually looked under the hood, we see there's no instance of Kaidan waking up in the captain's cabin with BroShep standing over him (ME1). Turns out that the German thing was actually just the gender swap console command for PC which has its own flaws (namely, having BroShep be called "ma'am" and "princess"; oddly, "sir" is less of an issue for women when it comes to military code, or so futuristic sci-fi movies would have us believe). Also, Mark Meer and Jennifer Hale were told to record all of the same dialogue for technical reasons that I don't fully understand. However, doing so has made it easier to get the romance mods. But, yes, Thane, Tali and Vega all seemed to have been bi options that were squashed. Jack would have "made sense" given that she talks about having been involved with a male/female couple. Surprised Kaidan got through but I think there was a big push by fans for it to happen. Tbh, FemShep was shorted on this, unless you count Liara (which you could, but I'm sure plenty of women would have liked a human female squadmate to romance). Honestly, though, Jacob might have gotten the worst of it. If romanced, he almost turns into his father, who was himself a stereotype. It should have more been, if Jacob isn't romanced (or they break up by the end), he ends up with Brynn Cole; if he is, he waits for Shepard. Or even, if Jacob doesn't have his LM completed he's less likely to remain loyal to Shepard and so inclined to end up with someone else. |
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Post by dgcatanisiri on Apr 11, 2018 7:08:22 GMT
I think Biowares homophobia was clear with how they cut out almost all of the bi romances in the OT. It seems damn near everyone was originally bi. Are you sure? It's a bit unclear. I had heard somewhere that in Germany there was a Kaidan romance. However, when people actually looked under the hood, we see there's no instance of Kaidan waking up in the captain's cabin with BroShep standing over him (ME1). Turns out that the German thing was actually just the gender swap console command for PC which has its own flaws (namely, having BroShep be called "ma'am" and "princess"; oddly, "sir" is less of an issue for women when it comes to military code, or so futuristic sci-fi movies would have us believe). Also, Mark Meer and Jennifer Hale were told to record all of the same dialogue for technical reasons that I don't fully understand. However, doing so has made it easier to get the romance mods. But, yes, Thane, Tali and Vega all seemed to have been bi options that were squashed. Jack would have "made sense" given that she talks about having been involved with a male/female couple. Surprised Kaidan got through but I think there was a big push by fans for it to happen. Tbh, FemShep was shorted on this, unless you count Liara (which you could, but I'm sure plenty of women would have liked a human female squadmate to romance). Honestly, though, Jacob might have gotten the worst of it. If romanced, he almost turns into his father, who was himself a stereotype. It should have more been, if Jacob isn't romanced (or they break up by the end), he ends up with Brynn Cole; if he is, he waits for Shepard. Or even, if Jacob doesn't have his LM completed he's less likely to remain loyal to Shepard and so inclined to end up with someone else. The thing about Kaidan and Ashley is that there are scattered reports that, once BioWare realized that they had Shepard's dialogue for them regardless of gender, they supposedly "considered" making them bi options, but squashed the idea for whatever reason. And the "whatever reason" has, to the best of my knowledge, never been the cost/difficulty of bringing Raphael Sbarge and Kimberly Brooks back into the studio, more a variation of how it 'didn't feel right' or something like that, which... I mean, just about anyone who's played the same-sex mod that lets them be romanced by a same sex Shepard would argue that point, I feel. Lordie, don't even START me on how Jacob was (mis)treated by ME3... I have WORDS on the subject. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2018 7:25:10 GMT
The thing about Kaidan and Ashley is that there are scattered reports that, once BioWare realized that they had Shepard's dialogue for them regardless of gender, they supposedly "considered" making them bi options, but squashed the idea for whatever reason. And the "whatever reason" has, to the best of my knowledge, never been the cost/difficulty of bringing Raphael Sbarge and Kimberly Brooks back into the studio, more a variation of how it 'didn't feel right' or something like that, which... I mean, just about anyone who's played the same-sex mod that lets them be romanced by a same sex Shepard would argue that point, I feel. Oh, I see. Yeah, their bullshit arguments of "makes sense". I told someone over on BSN that there are plenty of gay guys and women that fall under "you'd never know" (and not closeted) and certainly any number of them could kick some serious ass...theirs included. Also, Kaidan DID make sense given the mood change whenever Shepard approached, regardless of Shepard's gender. Similarly, Ashley had absolutely nothing in her dialogue to indicate that she had any particular preference so she was an easy one. |
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rondeeno
Dashing Rogue
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Post by rondeeno on Apr 14, 2018 4:10:59 GMT
Are you sure? It's a bit unclear. I had heard somewhere that in Germany there was a Kaidan romance. However, when people actually looked under the hood, we see there's no instance of Kaidan waking up in the captain's cabin with BroShep standing over him (ME1). Turns out that the German thing was actually just the gender swap console command for PC which has its own flaws (namely, having BroShep be called "ma'am" and "princess"; oddly, "sir" is less of an issue for women when it comes to military code, or so futuristic sci-fi movies would have us believe). Also, Mark Meer and Jennifer Hale were told to record all of the same dialogue for technical reasons that I don't fully understand. However, doing so has made it easier to get the romance mods. But, yes, Thane, Tali and Vega all seemed to have been bi options that were squashed. Jack would have "made sense" given that she talks about having been involved with a male/female couple. Surprised Kaidan got through but I think there was a big push by fans for it to happen. Tbh, FemShep was shorted on this, unless you count Liara (which you could, but I'm sure plenty of women would have liked a human female squadmate to romance). Honestly, though, Jacob might have gotten the worst of it. If romanced, he almost turns into his father, who was himself a stereotype. It should have more been, if Jacob isn't romanced (or they break up by the end), he ends up with Brynn Cole; if he is, he waits for Shepard. Or even, if Jacob doesn't have his LM completed he's less likely to remain loyal to Shepard and so inclined to end up with someone else. The thing about Kaidan and Ashley is that there are scattered reports that, once BioWare realized that they had Shepard's dialogue for them regardless of gender, they supposedly "considered" making them bi options, but squashed the idea for whatever reason. And the "whatever reason" has, to the best of my knowledge, never been the cost/difficulty of bringing Raphael Sbarge and Kimberly Brooks back into the studio, more a variation of how it 'didn't feel right' or something like that, which... I mean, just about anyone who's played the same-sex mod that lets them be romanced by a same sex Shepard would argue that point, I feel. Lordie, don't even START me on how Jacob was (mis)treated by ME3... I have WORDS on the subject. Yeah, Weekes said various times that Ash and Kaidan weren't initially planned as bi and the dialogue was only recorded because it was convenient, but they considered it once they had all the lines ready and decided against it because they thought the dialogue didn't " make sense" (which, as someone who spent a lot of time working with this dialogue, I think is bullshit). For ME2, it's definitely more unclear. FemShep has dialogue for initiating romances with Miranda, Jack, and Tali, as well as dialogue with Kelly, Mordin, Jacob, and Liara talking about the romances, but I doubt that BW would've ever considered having all of the female LIs be bi options. I'm just speculating (and I have no idea how development works), but I think maybe they originally wanted at least one of them to be a bi option but weren't sure who, so they recorded some dialogue for all of them (before deciding on none of them). MaleShep/Thane is the only unused romance that has jealousy dialogue recorded, where Thane doesn't mention any specific LIs, and the romance is completely gender-neutral, all of which leads me to believe that his s/s romance made it the furthest into development before being dropped. Something that's strange though is that MaleShep doesn't have any dialogue talking about the romance with other characters, unlike FemShep with Miranda/Jack/Tali, so who knows. As for Jacob, there's unused MaleShep audio for a few flirts with him, but none for initiating the romance, so it's possible they were originally just going to allow MaleShep to flirt with him and be turned down. Also, Garrus was probably always planned to be FemShep-only, since his romance was apparently added later on in development and the only "romance" line that MaleShep has audio for was allegedly only recorded as a joke. Anyway, there's more I can say but I don't want to bore everyone too much, lol. These are also just my own thoughts and guesses based on stuff that's in the files, I don't know if any of this is actually the case. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2018 5:22:33 GMT
Yeah, Weekes said various times that Ash and Kaidan weren't initially planned as bi and the dialogue was only recorded because it was convenient, but they considered it once they had all the lines ready and decided against it because they thought the dialogue didn't " make sense" (which, as someone who spent a lot of time working with this dialogue, I think is bullshit). It's obviously a bullshit argument. Those guys seem to think we have to fit into some sort of mold and if we don't it's just not possible. They need to wake up and realize there are a lot of homos out there who don't fit the stereotypes. A real lot. And plenty of them are military. Oh, and I doubt you're boring any of us on this subject. |
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Post by Red Fox on Apr 14, 2018 14:14:51 GMT
Yeah, Weekes said various times that Ash and Kaidan weren't initially planned as bi and the dialogue was only recorded because it was convenient, but they considered it once they had all the lines ready and decided against it because they thought the dialogue didn't " make sense" (which, as someone who spent a lot of time working with this dialogue, I think is bullshit). It's obviously a bullshit argument. Those guys seem to think we have to fit into some sort of mold and if we don't it's just not possible. They need to wake up and realize there are a lot of homos out there who don't fit the stereotypes. A real lot. And plenty of them are military. Oh, and I doubt you're boring any of us on this subject. Being on the other side of the fence I think it's just easier for people to throw you all in the same lot and wash their hands of it. There is a staggering amount of indifference. |
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Post by Rouccoco on Apr 14, 2018 14:49:36 GMT
Yeah, Weekes said various times that Ash and Kaidan weren't initially planned as bi and the dialogue was only recorded because it was convenient, but they considered it once they had all the lines ready and decided against it because they thought the dialogue didn't " make sense" (which, as someone who spent a lot of time working with this dialogue, I think is bullshit). But then there's this: "Kristjanson said he never thought of Kaidan as a straight man, and was thrilled when they finally got to do a male romance with him in ME3 (by this point he had moved on to working on Dragon Age full time and therefore did not write for Kaidan in ME3). He never told me why there was no option for same-sex relations with Ash and Kaidan in ME1, but made a point of stressing that Kaidan, in his mind, was never straight. He also stressed that it wasn't EA's fault it was never an option. Who knows the real reasons." From this and a lot of other sources I feel that, as in Andromeda, there were people that wanted LGBT characters, but higher-ups in the ME teams, like Casey Hudson, blocked it. And there's a reason the gay ME choices are Kaidan (alive in only 17% plathroughs), Steve (can be killed off), and Gil and Reyes (both side characters, you can shoot at one). And that reason is not EA. EA can screw up with the schedule or budget, or even force MP, but every BW employee asked about it says they don't get a list of do's and don'ts. (not saying that you believe that, just a common belief I've seen on the internet) I mean, what else can Patrick say, that his colleagues don't really want gay men in their games? Or that the doctors thought the same? |
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Post by Red Fox on Apr 14, 2018 15:07:29 GMT
I think it's clear what the answer is. I don't doubt they were kicking and screaming about having to add gay content.
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That was totally worth the extra effort for me! I was thrilled by that change! I'm always thirsty for every bit of Kaidan content I can get after all! 
