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Post by dgcatanisiri on Apr 14, 2018 21:35:44 GMT
Yeah, Weekes said various times that Ash and Kaidan weren't initially planned as bi and the dialogue was only recorded because it was convenient, but they considered it once they had all the lines ready and decided against it because they thought the dialogue didn't " make sense" (which, as someone who spent a lot of time working with this dialogue, I think is bullshit). But then there's this: "Kristjanson said he never thought of Kaidan as a straight man, and was thrilled when they finally got to do a male romance with him in ME3 (by this point he had moved on to working on Dragon Age full time and therefore did not write for Kaidan in ME3). He never told me why there was no option for same-sex relations with Ash and Kaidan in ME1, but made a point of stressing that Kaidan, in his mind, was never straight. He also stressed that it wasn't EA's fault it was never an option. Who knows the real reasons." From this and a lot of other sources I feel that, as in Andromeda, there were people that wanted LGBT characters, but higher-ups in the ME teams, like Casey Hudson, blocked it. And there's a reason the gay ME choices are Kaidan (alive in only 17% plathroughs), Steve (can be killed off), and Gil and Reyes (both side characters, you can shoot at one). And that reason is not EA. EA can screw up with the schedule or budget, or even force MP, but every BW employee asked about it says they don't get a list of do's and don'ts. (not saying that you believe that, just a common belief I've seen on the internet) I mean, what else can Patrick say, that his colleagues don't really want gay men in their games? Or that the doctors thought the same? Honestly, I approach that comment from Kristjanson with more than a little skepticism. He hasn't really written queer characters since (Sera being his exclusive foray, and she honestly comes across more like a fratboy's idea of a lesbian more than a lesbian), and he's responsible for Liam 'I'm not into guys, now I'm gonna strut around shirtless even though you've said you're into me' Kosta. He strikes me as someone who is "I'm not homophobic, I totally have gay friends" and that he's uncomfortable with male homosexuality specifically as a result, while also not really working well in the confines of a lesbian, writing her just as "a guy with boobs" more than as a woman who is attracted to women. Like, I don't think of him as malicious in it, but very much in that 'I don't understand it, and therefore, I'm uncomfortable about it' kind of way. And it led him to write a character with a viewpoint that didn't fit her experiences in Inquisition and a character who ends up being a tease, if not a taunt, in Andromeda. Which, ultimately, seems to be the BioWare model on the subject. It's possible that the difference is the involvement of David Gaider on the Dragon Age team - he led that team for three games, he could weed out the bad attitudes, explain the things that they didn't get or were uncomfortable with, set them at ease. Mass Effect, to the best of my knowledge, has no queer writers, not just gay men, but no queer women or men who don't identify as straight on that team. And rather than try to correct this, they've just barreled on ahead, despite getting feedback of 'no, you're doing this wrong, why aren't you even TRYING to fix this problem'. |
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Post by Red Fox on Apr 14, 2018 21:53:27 GMT
But then there's this: "Kristjanson said he never thought of Kaidan as a straight man, and was thrilled when they finally got to do a male romance with him in ME3 (by this point he had moved on to working on Dragon Age full time and therefore did not write for Kaidan in ME3). He never told me why there was no option for same-sex relations with Ash and Kaidan in ME1, but made a point of stressing that Kaidan, in his mind, was never straight. He also stressed that it wasn't EA's fault it was never an option. Who knows the real reasons." From this and a lot of other sources I feel that, as in Andromeda, there were people that wanted LGBT characters, but higher-ups in the ME teams, like Casey Hudson, blocked it. And there's a reason the gay ME choices are Kaidan (alive in only 17% plathroughs), Steve (can be killed off), and Gil and Reyes (both side characters, you can shoot at one). And that reason is not EA. EA can screw up with the schedule or budget, or even force MP, but every BW employee asked about it says they don't get a list of do's and don'ts. (not saying that you believe that, just a common belief I've seen on the internet) I mean, what else can Patrick say, that his colleagues don't really want gay men in their games? Or that the doctors thought the same? Honestly, I approach that comment from Kristjanson with more than a little skepticism. He hasn't really written queer characters since (Sera being his exclusive foray, and she honestly comes across more like a fratboy's idea of a lesbian more than a lesbian), and he's responsible for Liam 'I'm not into guys, now I'm gonna strut around shirtless even though you've said you're into me' Kosta. He strikes me as someone who is "I'm not homophobic, I totally have gay friends" and that he's uncomfortable with male homosexuality specifically as a result, while also not really working well in the confines of a lesbian, writing her just as "a guy with boobs" more than as a woman who is attracted to women. Like, I don't think of him as malicious in it, but very much in that 'I don't understand it, and therefore, I'm uncomfortable about it' kind of way. And it led him to write a character with a viewpoint that didn't fit her experiences in Inquisition and a character who ends up being a tease, if not a taunt, in Andromeda. Which, ultimately, seems to be the BioWare model on the subject. It's possible that the difference is the involvement of David Gaider on the Dragon Age team - he led that team for three games, he could weed out the bad attitudes, explain the things that they didn't get or were uncomfortable with, set them at ease. Mass Effect, to the best of my knowledge, has no queer writers, not just gay men, but no queer women or men who don't identify as straight on that team. And rather than try to correct this, they've just barreled on ahead, despite getting feedback of 'no, you're doing this wrong, why aren't you even TRYING to fix this problem'. It really seems like the me and da teams might as well be different companies. |
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Post by Rouccoco on Apr 14, 2018 23:47:02 GMT
Sera being his exclusive foray, and she honestly comes across more like a fratboy's idea of a lesbian more than a lesbian That's your impression. There's plenty of gay/bi women, including some here, who love Sera. Patrick Weekes worked on the ME trilogy. He wrote Samantha, Bull, and Krem (plus talked about his pansexuality and intentions to include asexual romances), but before that his characters were all straight (minus Jack, but her bisexuality is "locked"). He has no problems writing LGBT characters, but he didn't write any bi men in ME1 and 2. Sheryl Chee had to fight for Vetra and Suvi, and she wrote bi women since DAO. Both Kristjanson and Weekes wrote more LGBT characters for DA than ME, and if she hadn't won, the same would go for Chee. Manveer Heir spoke about how thick-headed the management can be. He said that he and other people brought up how MEA could mess up with the good colonisers - savage natives narrative, but they didn't care. He said that the leadership was homogeneous and people who want change can't break through. He made a speech at GDC about how racial and sexual minorities should get more representation - MEA doesn't really do anything great in that regards and the atmosphere forced him out. Leadership matters, DA is way more LGBT friendly and I think Gaider allowing it and placing LGBT friendly people on the top had to do with it. It's that atmosphere, where you get employees, who work overtime, so that a bi romance option can be accessed by everyone, even though they're straight themselves (John Epler). So I'm not going to level baseless accusations at Kristjanson, I'm going to blame the leadership, there's actual evidence for it. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2018 2:37:30 GMT
But then there's this: "Kristjanson said he never thought of Kaidan as a straight man, and was thrilled when they finally got to do a male romance with him in ME3 (by this point he had moved on to working on Dragon Age full time and therefore did not write for Kaidan in ME3). He never told me why there was no option for same-sex relations with Ash and Kaidan in ME1, but made a point of stressing that Kaidan, in his mind, was never straight. He also stressed that it wasn't EA's fault it was never an option. Who knows the real reasons." It couldn't have been EA's fault because EA didn't come on board until ME2. That's all BioWare. |
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Post by elegantman on Apr 21, 2018 5:56:18 GMT
I'm really glad you like it! I want to thank everyone for all the nice messages and comments this entire time. I've been feeling a little discouraged for the past few months, so your support really does mean a lot. [img class="smile" style="max-width: 100%;" alt="[3" src="//storage.proboards.com/6753349/images/0ebqXOgFFeiSsuEvmdgV.png"] Since I`ve played ME1 with this mod I really wanted to say THANKS A MILLION to person who did this! So THANK YOU! You did amazing job. The game should`ve always been like this. Recently I was browsing website with mods hoping there would be mod for ME2 and I`ve found that there is also new Beacon Activation mod. It`s totally amazing! Already have tried it. At last that ridiculous gender locked scene with Beacon has gone. I recently released a new update for the ME1 mod that allows Kaidan's post-sex scene to occur for MaleShep. Originally, I had the mod skip over this scene because I didn't know how to get it to work for MaleShep, but after looking over the file again, I found a way to edit it to remove Kaidan's opening line (where he refers to Shepard as a woman) and Shepard's dialogue options (which MaleShep has no audio for). It's a short scene, but I figured it would be a nice addition to the mod. I noticed that and thought it`s a perfect solution. It`s always nice to see some extra Kaidan\mShepard scenes. I also made some additional edits to the Citadel casino entrance scene, so now MaleShep and Kaidan will walk arm-in-arm down the red carpet No… really?   You…should apply for work at Bioware but they probably don`t deserve such wonderful employee.  Haven`t started ME2 yet. But I know it will be more pleasant now. I have a question about ME3 mod: will Kaidan ask male Shep about his relationship with Jacob if Shepard flirted\romanced Jacob in ME2 with this mod? I remember I read somewhere that he asks fem Shep about it in original version of the game. |
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rondeeno
Dashing Rogue
Posts: 34
Likes: 193
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Post by rondeeno on Apr 22, 2018 4:32:04 GMT
Like it? As for me - I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THIS MOD! ME1 never was so…complete, fun, enjoyable!Since I`ve played ME1 with this mod I really wanted to say THANKS A MILLION to person who did this! So THANK YOU! You did amazing job. The game should`ve always been like this. Recently I was browsing website with mods hoping there would be mod for ME2 and I`ve found that there is also new Beacon Activation mod. It`s totally amazing! Already have tried it. At last that ridiculous gender locked scene with Beacon has gone. I recently released a new update for the ME1 mod that allows Kaidan's post-sex scene to occur for MaleShep. Originally, I had the mod skip over this scene because I didn't know how to get it to work for MaleShep, but after looking over the file again, I found a way to edit it to remove Kaidan's opening line (where he refers to Shepard as a woman) and Shepard's dialogue options (which MaleShep has no audio for). It's a short scene, but I figured it would be a nice addition to the mod. I noticed that and thought it`s a perfect solution. It`s always nice to see some extra Kaidan\mShepard scenes. I also made some additional edits to the Citadel casino entrance scene, so now MaleShep and Kaidan will walk arm-in-arm down the red carpet No… really? You…should apply for work at Bioware but they probably don`t deserve such wonderful employee. Haven`t started ME2 yet. But I know it will be more pleasant now. I have a question about ME3 mod: will Kaidan ask male Shep about his relationship with Jacob if Shepard flirted\romanced Jacob in ME2 with this mod? I remember I read somewhere that he asks fem Shep about it in original version of the game. Aw I'm so glad you enjoyed the mod, and thank you for all the kind words! I'm certainly nowhere near qualified to work in game development, haha. But it really means a lot! The ME2 mod only restores a few flirts between MaleShep and Jacob instead of allowing the whole romance (since there isn't enough unused dialogue for it), and because the flirts don't actually set any plot data, nothing gets carried over unfortunately. Kaidan's dialogue about Thane was also the only jealousy dialogue that I could get to work for MaleShep, so Thane is actually the only ME2 LI that Kaidan will ask MaleShep about. |
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Post by elegantman on Apr 22, 2018 10:51:13 GMT
Aw I'm so glad you enjoyed the mod, and thank you for all the kind words! I'm certainly nowhere near qualified to work in game development, haha. But it really means a lot! The ME2 mod only restores a few flirts between MaleShep and Jacob instead of allowing the whole romance (since there isn't enough unused dialogue for it), and because the flirts don't actually set any plot data, nothing gets carried over unfortunately. Kaidan's dialogue about Thane was also the only jealousy dialogue that I could get to work for MaleShep, so Thane is actually the only ME2 LI that Kaidan will ask MaleShep about. I'm not a programmer, so for me it's like magic  Can`t wait for the mod!  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2018 11:14:30 GMT
Aw I'm so glad you enjoyed the mod, and thank you for all the kind words! I'm certainly nowhere near qualified to work in game development, haha. But it really means a lot! The ME2 mod only restores a few flirts between MaleShep and Jacob instead of allowing the whole romance (since there isn't enough unused dialogue for it), and because the flirts don't actually set any plot data, nothing gets carried over unfortunately. Kaidan's dialogue about Thane was also the only jealousy dialogue that I could get to work for MaleShep, so Thane is actually the only ME2 LI that Kaidan will ask MaleShep about. I'm not a programmer, so for me it's like magic Can`t wait for the mod! My Shep would never, ever cheat on Kaidan, so it's a moot point for me. |
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Post by elegantman on Apr 22, 2018 11:47:52 GMT
I'm not a programmer, so for me it's like magic Can`t wait for the mod! My Shep would never, ever cheat on Kaidan, so it's a moot point for me. Lol. Actually I meant that I`m waiting for the whole mod in general, not the cheat part. Well maybe except for the Casino walk part. New walk part is definitely worth to see. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2018 13:15:24 GMT
My Shep would never, ever cheat on Kaidan, so it's a moot point for me. Lol. Actually I meant that I`m waiting for the whole mod in general, not the cheat part. Well maybe except for the Casino walk part. New walk part is definitely worth to see. Yes, I can't wait to get that! I did a test mod for ME3 that allowed Kaidan and Shepard to "remember" they were in a relationship at Apollo's Cafe (without the mod they forget somewhere between the Cerberus coup and date night). It doesn't have the Casino walk in it but I won't uninstall the test mod until the official one is out! |
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Post by Lee on Apr 23, 2018 4:51:23 GMT
I've been meaning to ask, is the test version still available to download? Just wondering. I am tempted to try it for sure. I'm dying to get the full version of the ME3 gay mod of course.  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2018 11:05:14 GMT
Had a date with Kaidan. Literally dropped everything once I got the message about dinner. Since I have the test mod installed, the dialogue is a little different. Stuff like Kaidan saying he'd always loved Shepard. God, that's so worth it.
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rondeeno
Dashing Rogue
Posts: 34
Likes: 193
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Post by rondeeno on Apr 27, 2018 5:11:48 GMT
I've been meaning to ask, is the test version still available to download? Just wondering. I am tempted to try it for sure. I'm dying to get the full version of the ME3 gay mod of course. The test version is pretty outdated by now, but I can update it and send it to you. It just might take a little while to upload lol. |
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Post by Lee on Apr 27, 2018 5:32:34 GMT
I've been meaning to ask, is the test version still available to download? Just wondering. I am tempted to try it for sure. I'm dying to get the full version of the ME3 gay mod of course. The test version is pretty outdated by now, but I can update it and send it to you. It just might take a little while to upload lol. That would be awesome, but if it's too much trouble I can wait for the full release.  Either way, thanks for your amazing work! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2018 10:31:14 GMT
I've been meaning to ask, is the test version still available to download? Just wondering. I am tempted to try it for sure. I'm dying to get the full version of the ME3 gay mod of course. The test version is pretty outdated by now, but I can update it and send it to you. It just might take a little while to upload lol. I would also be interested in an updated version. More than happy to give feedback or save files again. |
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rondeeno
Dashing Rogue
Posts: 34
Likes: 193
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Post by rondeeno on Apr 27, 2018 23:04:42 GMT
The test version is pretty outdated by now, but I can update it and send it to you. It just might take a little while to upload lol. That would be awesome, but if it's too much trouble I can wait for the full release. Either way, thanks for your amazing work! It's fine, it didn't take much work to update it. I also feel kinda bad for taking so long with the mod. |
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Post by Lee on Apr 28, 2018 1:13:21 GMT
That would be awesome, but if it's too much trouble I can wait for the full release. Either way, thanks for your amazing work! It's fine, it didn't take much work to update it. I also feel kinda bad for taking so long with the mod. Awesome! Thanks, and I can't wait to try it.  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2018 4:00:39 GMT
That would be awesome, but if it's too much trouble I can wait for the full release. Either way, thanks for your amazing work! It's fine, it didn't take much work to update it. I also feel kinda bad for taking so long with the mod. You shouldn't feel bad. I assume you have a life to live outside of modding. Also, I felt like I took a long time to test the prior version. |
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Post by Lee on Apr 28, 2018 7:04:22 GMT
Well, So far so good. The mod seems to have installed without a hitch. The non-audio supported lines from the start of the game were gone as expected, and the voiced lines I expected where there. Works quite seamlessly. I haven't gotten to the first talk in the hospital yet, but that will happen soon! I'll keep making updates especially if I notice anything strange. You do amazing work Rondeeno and I am as always impressed by your work. Thanks again for letting me preview the Kaidan portion of your mod.  Edit for update: I got the first talk with Kaidan (at the Hospital). Everything's still smooth. I'm still sad that there is so much lovely content that can't be experienced on ps3, but I'm so thrilled that I can experience it on pc now. |
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rondeeno
Dashing Rogue
Posts: 34
Likes: 193
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Post by rondeeno on Apr 28, 2018 15:04:52 GMT
Well, So far so good. The mod seems to have installed without a hitch. The non-audio supported lines from the start of the game were gone as expected, and the voiced lines I expected where there. Works quite seamlessly. I haven't gotten to the first talk in the hospital yet, but that will happen soon! I'll keep making updates especially if I notice anything strange. You do amazing work Rondeeno and I am as always impressed by your work. Thanks again for letting me preview the Kaidan portion of your mod. Edit for update: I got the first talk with Kaidan (at the Hospital). Everything's still smooth. I'm still sad that there is so much lovely content that can't be experienced on ps3, but I'm so thrilled that I can experience it on pc now. Thank you so much! I'm really glad you like it so far. If you have any questions about anything, let me know! |
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Either way, thanks for your amazing work!
