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Post by nocte on May 16, 2017 21:33:46 GMT
I actually like making the big choices. lol But I don't know, I don't really want to work for the Inquisition. If anything, I'd rather just be a random like Hawke and pick what my goals are if we're doing a small story. I don't mind "big" stories, either, though.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2017 21:37:24 GMT
I actually like making the big choices. lol But I don't know, I don't really want to work for the Inquisition. If anything, I'd rather just be a random like Hawke and pick what my goals are if we're doing a small story. I don't mind "big" stories, either, though. Given that the plot for DAI was essentially cut in half, I don't think a smaller story is in the cards for this one.
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mrslothy
The Beastmaster
Elcor in the Fade
Posts: 639
Likes: 2,006
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Post by mrslothy on May 16, 2017 21:42:37 GMT
of couse, IF we manage to get to da4. i think we will but i hope they finally answer more questions about lore!
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Post by Aurora'Harel on May 16, 2017 22:12:50 GMT
Dorian seems like the most likely past character from any game to appear in DA4, so what do you think his role will be? Do you think he'd be a returning companion, or a faction leader your can choose to help or side against? Do you think we'll be able to make him the Archon or something like that? I hope Dorian comes back as an advisor of some sorts, hopefully he will have decent quest to go along with it. I don't think I would want him as a full blown companion unless the Inquisitor is the protagonist again. I doubt that will happen. It would be interesting if we could make him Archon in game, especially since he makes a joke about it in DAI.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2017 22:21:34 GMT
Dorian seems like the most likely past character from any game to appear in DA4, so what do you think his role will be? Do you think he'd be a returning companion, or a faction leader your can choose to help or side against? Do you think we'll be able to make him the Archon or something like that? I hope Dorian comes back as an advisor of some sorts, hopefully he will have decent quest to go along with it. I don't think I would want him as a full blown companion unless the Inquisitor is the protagonist again. I doubt that will happen. It would be interesting if we could make him Archon in game, especially since he makes a joke about it in DAI. Are you referring to what he says in the "getting to know you" dialogue? -- "They wanted a son who could become archon, instead they got me," -- or is there some other reference? (I miss out on most banter as I only take a small crew.)
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Post by Aurora'Harel on May 16, 2017 22:22:51 GMT
I hope Dorian comes back as an advisor of some sorts, hopefully he will have decent quest to go along with it. I don't think I would want him as a full blown companion unless the Inquisitor is the protagonist again. I doubt that will happen. It would be interesting if we could make him Archon in game, especially since he makes a joke about it in DAI. Are you referring to what he says in the "getting to know you" dialogue? -- "They wanted a son who could become archon, instead they got me," -- or is there some other reference? (I miss out on most banter as I only take a small crew.) yes, because if he did become Archon, then they did get a son who could become Archon.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2017 22:37:01 GMT
Are you referring to what he says in the "getting to know you" dialogue? -- "They wanted a son who could become archon, instead they got me," -- or is there some other reference? (I miss out on most banter as I only take a small crew.) yes, because if he did become Archon, then they did get a son who could become Archon. OH I understand your meaning now. I don't take his initial remarks as humorous because of their tone (he is so very jaded about all this), and the fact that it's actually true. At any rate, the archon appoints his own successor (not necessarily a blood relative). So even if he was assassinated, his appointed heir would assume his place. If there is no appointed heir, the Magisterium can vote on the matter. However, I doubt Dorian is well-liked, not only because of his personality and outspokenness against Tevinter's problems, but because he served with the Inquisition. Tevinter sees/saw the Inquisition as a threat. I'd imagine that dislike would be even worse if he were known to be the romantic partner of the former Inquisitor. The odds are so stacked against him for becoming archon, that the writers would really have to put a decent effort into making it halfway plausible if that's their goal. This isn't the Assembly in Orzammar, where some random person lifting up a crown supposedly forged by a Paragon and taking that person at their word is a thing that will happen. These people care about power and self-interest, which is why Tevinter is in such a sorry state. Alexius had to stand on the Senate floor and practically beg for funds for the decaying Circles -- the Circles, in a country where magic is everything! That should tell everything about their mentality.
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Post by Aurora'Harel on May 16, 2017 22:56:21 GMT
@nightscrawl yeah, I guess saying that Dorian joked about it was a poor choice of words. I just thought it would be kind of ironic? I couldn't remember the exact dialogue when I posted, so thank you for jogging my memory.
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mrslothy
The Beastmaster
Elcor in the Fade
Posts: 639
Likes: 2,006
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Post by mrslothy on May 17, 2017 16:59:13 GMT
completely random-i wish rhey did some other specialization instead of necromany. i feel it doesnt suite dorian at all!
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Post by gimolas on May 17, 2017 19:19:22 GMT
completely random-i wish rhey did some other specialization instead of necromany. i feel it doesnt suite dorian at all! What specialization do you think would suit him? I don't mind him being one but I do agree it doesn't seem to "fit" because it's... such a Nevarran thing? My speculation with specializations is that they pretty much picked the ones they wanted to implement for the player and then assigned them to companions afterward. lol
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mrslothy
The Beastmaster
Elcor in the Fade
Posts: 639
Likes: 2,006
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Post by mrslothy on May 17, 2017 19:45:13 GMT
completely random-i wish rhey did some other specialization instead of necromany. i feel it doesnt suite dorian at all! What specialization do you think would suit him? I don't mind him being one but I do agree it doesn't seem to "fit" because it's... such a Nevarran thing? My speculation with specializations is that they pretty much picked the ones they wanted to implement for the player and then assigned them to companions afterward. lol i think force mage would have been a great fit. i'm sure there are some other specializations that i have no idea about but i think his bashful and cocky style evoke something dealing with the damage, maybe manipulating matter, such as telekinesis, or temporal (he studied with alexius on this, maye that's why they crammed haste into necromantic tree), but never really raising dead and posession. i mean, dorian doesn't express any interest towards manipulating the dead or any kind of morbidly occult focus. it's weird and very nevarran, yes. and it's true what you say, but vivienne speaks of being knight enchanter with pride, solas as rift mage is kind of appropriate but necromancer dorian came out of left field for me.
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Post by pessimistpanda on May 17, 2017 23:28:48 GMT
What specialization do you think would suit him? I don't mind him being one but I do agree it doesn't seem to "fit" because it's... such a Nevarran thing? My speculation with specializations is that they pretty much picked the ones they wanted to implement for the player and then assigned them to companions afterward. lol i think force mage would have been a great fit. i'm sure there are some other specializations that i have no idea about but i think his bashful and cocky style evoke something dealing with the damage, maybe manipulating matter, such as telekinesis, or temporal (he studied with alexius on this, maye that's why they crammed haste into necromantic tree), but never really raising dead and posession. i mean, dorian doesn't express any interest towards manipulating the dead or any kind of morbidly occult focus. it's weird and very nevarran, yes. and it's true what you say, but vivienne speaks of being knight enchanter with pride, solas as rift mage is kind of appropriate but necromancer dorian came out of left field for me. Yeah, it makes as much sense as Cassandra having the templar spec. "I don't have Templar powers, I have new, different, awesome-sounding powers." *Has templar powers*
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 23:35:26 GMT
completely random-i wish rhey did some other specialization instead of necromany. i feel it doesnt suite dorian at all! i mean, dorian doesn't express any interest towards manipulating the dead or any kind of morbidly occult focus. it's weird and very nevarran, yes. and it's true what you say, but vivienne speaks of being knight enchanter with pride, solas as rift mage is kind of appropriate but necromancer dorian came out of left field for me. In the post-WEWH talk, if the Inquisitor picks the and says "I'll remember our dance," Dorian replies something along the lines of how there could have been more corpses about. The Inquisitor says, "You're a strange young man, Dorian," and he response with, "Nonsense, I just enjoy the drama." He also has dialogue with Cassandra of being interested in the Grand Necropolis and how he wanted to visit when he traveled to Nevarra with his parents. He seems disappointed to learn from her that it's not quite as he imagined it as a kid. So I do indeed think it suits him! However, I do wish entropy as a school were more developed in DAI, as I think that does fit him well. It's my headcanon that, while he was training in the Circle, he started with entropy, and that just naturally slid over into necromancy. Also, it is a disappointment that Dorian doesn't have any dialogue about his spec at all. We get more about it from Cole than Dorian himself if the mage Inquisitor takes the spec. It's one way of showing the different Tevinter mentality with regard to spirits, as Cole says that he's bothered by it, they way they're pulled apart and manipulated. completely random-i wish rhey did some other specialization instead of necromany. i feel it doesnt suite dorian at all! What specialization do you think would suit him? I don't mind him being one but I do agree it doesn't seem to "fit" because it's... such a Nevarran thing? My speculation with specializations is that they pretty much picked the ones they wanted to implement for the player and then assigned them to companions afterward. lol It was actually developed by a Tevinter! He served on the court of the Nevarran king. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that a lot of magic and ideas seep between the borders, since the nations are neighbors. However, the key difference is that the Tevinter necromancer wouldn't have the same reverence and ceremony attached to it, as a mortalitasi from Nevarra does.
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Post by nocte on May 17, 2017 23:38:41 GMT
What specialization do you think would suit him? I don't mind him being one but I do agree it doesn't seem to "fit" because it's... such a Nevarran thing? My speculation with specializations is that they pretty much picked the ones they wanted to implement for the player and then assigned them to companions afterward. lol i think force mage would have been a great fit. i'm sure there are some other specializations that i have no idea about but i think his bashful and cocky style evoke something dealing with the damage, maybe manipulating matter, such as telekinesis, or temporal (he studied with alexius on this, maye that's why they crammed haste into necromantic tree), but never really raising dead and posession. i mean, dorian doesn't express any interest towards manipulating the dead or any kind of morbidly occult focus. it's weird and very nevarran, yes. and it's true what you say, but vivienne speaks of being knight enchanter with pride, solas as rift mage is kind of appropriate but necromancer dorian came out of left field for me. I agree, necromancer didn't really fit him. It seemed like they wanted it to be the other specialty even though it didn't fit him as a character, so he just got stuck with it. I think he should have had something temporal, because he studied time magic. I think it would have been more interesting narratively as a specialty, too, because of the Venatori and the time-frozen Tevinter temple you find. Necromancy has no real connection to the plot and, like you guys said, it's kind of a weird, disconnected Nevarran cultural thing plugged in. Given Dorian is from Tevinter, it would have even made more sense to make him an "ethical blood mage" (only uses his own blood, blood of your enemies type thing) than a necromancer.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 23:54:00 GMT
I agree, necromancer didn't really fit him. It seemed like they wanted it to be the other specialty even though it didn't fit him as a character, so he just got stuck with it. I think he should have had something temporal, because he studied time magic. I think it would have been more interesting narratively as a specialty, too, because of the Venatori and the time-frozen Tevinter temple you find. Necromancy has no real connection to the plot and, like you guys said, it's kind of a weird, disconnected Nevarran cultural thing plugged in. Given Dorian is from Tevinter, it would have even made more sense to make him an "ethical blood mage" (only uses his own blood, blood of your enemies type thing) than a necromancer.But this misunderstands why Dorian (and Halward) are against blood magic in the first place. They're not against it because of ethical reasons (mostly, at any rate), they're against it because to resort -- Dorian's personal quest is "The Last Resort" -- to its use is a sign of weakness, it's cheating because it's an "easy" way to get a lot of power. You have to consider Dorian's words about it: "The blood of yourself or a willing participant? What's the harm? But what if you need more? You always need more." This is where "temptation" comes into play, that desire for "more." When you succumb to that desire, when you give in to that temptation for more power, that is when you start draining slaves. The goodness in Dorian is that he knows and understand this, and even fears it, which is why he doesn't use blood magic at all.
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Post by nocte on May 17, 2017 23:59:33 GMT
I agree, necromancer didn't really fit him. It seemed like they wanted it to be the other specialty even though it didn't fit him as a character, so he just got stuck with it. I think he should have had something temporal, because he studied time magic. I think it would have been more interesting narratively as a specialty, too, because of the Venatori and the time-frozen Tevinter temple you find. Necromancy has no real connection to the plot and, like you guys said, it's kind of a weird, disconnected Nevarran cultural thing plugged in. Given Dorian is from Tevinter, it would have even made more sense to make him an "ethical blood mage" (only uses his own blood, blood of your enemies type thing) than a necromancer.But this misunderstands why Dorian (and Halward) are against blood magic in the first place. They're not against it because of ethical reasons (mostly, at any rate), they're against it because to resort -- Dorian's personal quest is "The Last Resort" -- to its use is a sign of weakness, it's cheating because it's an "easy" way to get a lot of power. You have to consider Dorian's words about it: "The blood of yourself or a willing participant? What's the harm? But what if you need more? You always need more." This is where "temptation" comes into play, that desire for "more." When you succumb to that desire, when you give in to that temptation for more power, that is when you start draining slaves. The goodness in Dorian is that he knows and understand this, and even fears it, which is why he doesn't use blood magic at all. Well, that does fit the way he talks, but I don't necessarily agree with it and would still be interested in a character that could resist the temptation. Magic is already this, I think a lot of people would say. It's an extreme power that can corrupt and often does, so why use it at all? It could tempt you down a dark path. So, where is the line? To me, it's where it does actually cause the negative harm you fear it could lead to, not some point before. So, I'd have thought it would have been cool if they'd written him as an ethical blood mage, instead. I'd still like to see that character in the future. Maybe we will in Tevinter. Since Dorian's greatest fear is temptation, though, maybe he wasn't the best for it. lol A temporal based specialty would have fit more with his plot line and has more relevance on the plot, so I wish they'd have gone with that.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on May 18, 2017 0:06:41 GMT
This is a Dorian song.
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Post by pessimistpanda on May 18, 2017 3:27:36 GMT
But this misunderstands why Dorian (and Halward) are against blood magic in the first place. They're not against it because of ethical reasons (mostly, at any rate), they're against it because to resort -- Dorian's personal quest is "The Last Resort" -- to its use is a sign of weakness, it's cheating because it's an "easy" way to get a lot of power. You have to consider Dorian's words about it: "The blood of yourself or a willing participant? What's the harm? But what if you need more? You always need more." This is where "temptation" comes into play, that desire for "more." When you succumb to that desire, when you give in to that temptation for more power, that is when you start draining slaves. The goodness in Dorian is that he knows and understand this, and even fears it, which is why he doesn't use blood magic at all. Well, that does fit the way he talks, but I don't necessarily agree with it and would still be interested in a character that could resist the temptation. Magic is already this, I think a lot of people would say. It's an extreme power that can corrupt and often does, so why use it at all? It could tempt you down a dark path. So, where is the line? To me, it's where it does actually cause the negative harm you fear it could lead to, not some point before. So, I'd have thought it would have been cool if they'd written him as an ethical blood mage, instead. I'd still like to see that character in the future. Maybe we will in Tevinter. Since Dorian's greatest fear is temptation, though, maybe he wasn't the best for it. lol A temporal based specialty would have fit more with his plot line and has more relevance on the plot, so I wish they'd have gone with that. I thought Merrill was "ethical", but DA2 makes her character look like a complete twit and we only have the writers' meta-word for it that she is not.
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Post by nocte on May 18, 2017 3:37:40 GMT
Well, that does fit the way he talks, but I don't necessarily agree with it and would still be interested in a character that could resist the temptation. Magic is already this, I think a lot of people would say. It's an extreme power that can corrupt and often does, so why use it at all? It could tempt you down a dark path. So, where is the line? To me, it's where it does actually cause the negative harm you fear it could lead to, not some point before. So, I'd have thought it would have been cool if they'd written him as an ethical blood mage, instead. I'd still like to see that character in the future. Maybe we will in Tevinter. Since Dorian's greatest fear is temptation, though, maybe he wasn't the best for it. lol A temporal based specialty would have fit more with his plot line and has more relevance on the plot, so I wish they'd have gone with that. I thought Merrill was "ethical", but DA2 makes her character look like a complete twit and we only have the writers' meta-word for it that she is not. I mean, yeah, that's kind of my thing with Merrill. lol She doesn't know wtf she is doing, but nobody in DA2 knows wtf they're doing. I was thinking more on the line of a well trained Tevinter mage that is competent and didn't learn blood magic from a random demon that happened by the magic mirror they keep around without knowing wtf it is. Merrill is kind of more of a what not to do, tbh.
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Post by pessimistpanda on May 18, 2017 3:42:20 GMT
I thought Merrill was "ethical", but DA2 makes her character look like a complete twit and we only have the writers' meta-word for it that she is not. I mean, yeah, that's kind of my thing with Merrill. lol She doesn't know wtf she is doing, but nobody in DA2 knows wtf they're doing. I was thinking more on the line of a well trained Tevinter mage that is competent and didn't learn blood magic from a random demon that happened by the magic mirror they keep around without knowing wtf it is. Merrill is kind of more of a what not to do, tbh. I agree, someone who can make a coherent, nuanced argument about the ethics of blood magic would be awesome. But BioWare sucks at nuanced debate just generally. Like don't get me started on the fuckin Tranquil, man.
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